plubers
Verified Trader,
Keith is having a disciplinary hearing at 1:30pm today. Any guesses on how this turns out?
Duncan Keith - 5th of Jun - Disciplinary hearing
- Thread starter plubers
- Start date
G
gretzky99
Guest
i know Keith likely didn't try to hit Carter in the mouth. but, if you only look at what he actually did, swinging his stick into Carter's face, then add that he was suspended for 5 games within the last year, i have to think it has to be 3-5 games.
now, maybe they are lenient because it does look like he didn't "mean to". in the sense that he didn't want to hit him in the face. but he did "mean" to hit him.
if Keith is not suspended it is a joke. now, i won't be surprised because the whole process is a joke. but you absolutely cannot swing your stick with intent to hit someone and hit them in the face (even if that's not your target). that is 100% intent to injure by the book.
it matters not what Carter did to provoke. he did nothing suspension worthy and nothing that doesn't happen on a regular basis in the NHL playoffs.
should be 3-5 games
my guess, 0-1 games.
and regardless of the outcome, this process needs to be fixed. it is terrible in every way. there is no consistency at all.
now, maybe they are lenient because it does look like he didn't "mean to". in the sense that he didn't want to hit him in the face. but he did "mean" to hit him.
if Keith is not suspended it is a joke. now, i won't be surprised because the whole process is a joke. but you absolutely cannot swing your stick with intent to hit someone and hit them in the face (even if that's not your target). that is 100% intent to injure by the book.
it matters not what Carter did to provoke. he did nothing suspension worthy and nothing that doesn't happen on a regular basis in the NHL playoffs.
should be 3-5 games
my guess, 0-1 games.
and regardless of the outcome, this process needs to be fixed. it is terrible in every way. there is no consistency at all.
RGM81
Verified Trader
Easily a suspendable offence. While I'm sure that Keith didn't intend to nail Carter in the mush, that only enhances the argument that the play was reckless. That's a buzzword with Shanahan. Throw in the repeat offender business, and I think you're looking at 2-3 games.
sanintarious
R.Bourque Super Collector,
I think he'll only get 1 game, and I wouldn't even be all that surprised if he didn't get a suspension. Playoffs its a whole different story for length, as well as him being a "star". I don't at all agree that these should be factors, but the fact that Carter came back and was fine, and it being the playoffs, history with Shanny will show that he likely only gets 1 game.
We should know soon enough thou!
We should know soon enough thou!
FASTMAX
Verified Trader,
I 100% agree with everything said here. The only thing that I would add is to the bolded part. If that is the case, Carter should be looking at something as well for his "attempt to injure" by slashing at the bare hand of Keith while he was attempting to put his glove back on.
G
gretzky99
Guest
That kind of stuff happens all the time. Huge difference between taking a swipe at a hand and cracking teeth, causing 21 stitches and losing a bridge.
One is pestering, one is an actual attempt to injure.
Fleury14
Verified Trader,
errant high stick/slash = playoff suspension?.. I don't think it should be, suspension never even entered my mind after the play.
G
gretzky99
Guest
Not errant - intentional. Big difference.
MMarch
One Man Wolfpack, ,
And if Carter broke Keiths hand you would say oh well it's just "pestering" no big deal? If Shaw did the same thing to Doughty, I think you'd be singing a different tune. Anyone who slashes a guy on the bare hand knows what he's doing, it's bush league, it is an attempt to injure, and it's just as bad as when Williams speared Shaw in the junk. It amazes me that any time a King player does something, they are just "playing hard" or "pestering", but when someone retaliates or does something to a King, throw the book at them.
FASTMAX
Verified Trader,
You said it yourself. Again, the bolded part. "but you absolutely cannot swing your stick with intent to hit someone and hit them in the face (even if that's not your target). that is 100% intent to injure by the book"
What did Carter do. He swung his stick at someone with intent to hit someone. 100% intent to injure by the book in your words.
G
gretzky99
Guest
If he broke his hand then yes, it's different. But he didn't. Case closed.
FASTMAX
Verified Trader,
Did Carter get injured? A broken jaw? Teeth knocked out? No? Case closed? No. Go back and read my post on the actual GDT. I do think Keith should get something. Not sure how many but something.
G
gretzky99
Guest
First, he didn't swing his stick. He took a chop, a play that happens multiple times a game. And let's not forget Keith cross checked Carter before the Carter chop. Both of those are part of the game. Not a pretty part, but something you see between players all the time. Sharp/Williams was the same.
Look, if you guys can't tell the difference between swinging your stick and hitting someone in the face, cracking multiple teeth and causing 21 stitches vs. chopping at a hand, there's nothing I can do for you.
G
gretzky99
Guest
G
gretzky99
Guest
Before the thread gets closed, and it will, are you guys really telling me that what Carter did isn't a somewhat regular occurrence? You don't see guys take a chop or whack at another player? In the hands, maybe on the legs. Do all those deserve suspensions?
Keith's swing was not something you see often. I don't think he was aiming at Carter's face, but he did and it did damage. It is very, very different than what Carter did.
Now, if Carter tried to chop Keith in the hand but hit him in the nose and broke it, I would expect the same thing.
If anyone swings their stick at someone's head with malicious intent we would likely all agree it would be a 10+ game suspension. So the question here is how much dies intent play into it? It can't be everything. If it is, how do you suspend anyone? Can we really know intent for sure?
The result itself must be suspendable.
It doesn't matter because Keith won't get anything, but he should and it will have a major impact on the series and that sucks.
Keith's swing was not something you see often. I don't think he was aiming at Carter's face, but he did and it did damage. It is very, very different than what Carter did.
Now, if Carter tried to chop Keith in the hand but hit him in the nose and broke it, I would expect the same thing.
If anyone swings their stick at someone's head with malicious intent we would likely all agree it would be a 10+ game suspension. So the question here is how much dies intent play into it? It can't be everything. If it is, how do you suspend anyone? Can we really know intent for sure?
The result itself must be suspendable.
It doesn't matter because Keith won't get anything, but he should and it will have a major impact on the series and that sucks.
MMarch
One Man Wolfpack, ,
I can tell the difference, and nowhere did I defend or say Keith doesn't deserve what he gets. The point is you feel chopping or slashing a bare hand, or spearing someone in the junk, is ok. Both are dirty, both are not part of the game, and if I'm not mistaken, spearing is a 5 minute major or match penalty. Just because your players got away with it doesn't make it right or part if the game. But you defend your players actions and then want the book thrown at anyone who does something to a King. You can't have it both ways, no matter how hard you try and argue for it.
MMarch
One Man Wolfpack, ,
Gretzky, who knows when it comes to intent anymore. Kerry Frasers comments on this situation say it all. Mike Green looked at the ref, saw no penalty was called on Dorsett, so he turned and cross checked Dorsett in the face with malicious intent and drew blood. Green got a two minute penalty and no hearing. This happened in the playoffs too. Keith's was nowhere near as intentional, meaning he swung one handed and unfortunately for him (and Carter), caught Carter in the face. So how can we judge both incidents when one would argue Greens was intentional and a cross check to the face drawing blood, only a minor and no hearing? Keith's was not as intentional but he drew blood, got a double minor and a hearing. It is the vicious circle of no consistency again, the league has a huge mess on their hands in this regard.
FASTMAX
Verified Trader,
Fair enough. I was unaware of the extend of damage. I am not sure what you are trying to get across with the "Nice try though" comment.
I am saying that Keith deserves a suspension. I'm not sure you read that part in any of my posts so I'll say it again. Keith deserves something, I am just unsure at what.
I am going to tell you that what Carter did is NOT a regular occurance. Sure you see slashing/chopping , whatever you want to call it, but not at a guy without a glove on. BIG difference between a whack on the arm/leg and a "chop" at an unprotected hand. If you dont/cant see that I dont think you have ever played high calibre hockey. I am not sure when Keith cross check Carter on that play. The reply I see (as I didnt watch the whole game) shows a battle in front of the net, Keith getting a face full of Carters elbow, Carter pulls his stick out of his hands and then Keith looses the glove. Then Carter "chops" him across the back. He then picks up his stick and goes for the glove and gets another "chop" on the bare hand. Keith then pulls the ol' stick to the face thingy.
tiger tiger
Verified Trader
I've given up trying to relate the infraction to the suspension. I find it has less and less to do with the actual incident.
Since it's the playoffs, I would be surprised if Keith got more than 1 game. He got a double minor, and in the eyes of the NHL that's equivalent to 1 regular season games. 1 playoff game would be equivalent to 2 or 3 reg season games.
Plus it's a key player on the Hawks.
Also tough to prove intent. Keith, sincerely or smartly, apologized immediately, and followed it up with a 2nd attempt. This works well for his case.
Was Keith careless with his stick and retaliated? Yes. But he got a penalty, so it's not like it went unpunished. Plus the Kings won. I know it has nothing to do with anything, but it seems like the NHL looks at how it affects the overall outcome of the game.
Carter isn't going miss any games either, so that's going to reduce any suspension.
Keith could just get a fine.
Since it's the playoffs, I would be surprised if Keith got more than 1 game. He got a double minor, and in the eyes of the NHL that's equivalent to 1 regular season games. 1 playoff game would be equivalent to 2 or 3 reg season games.
Plus it's a key player on the Hawks.
Also tough to prove intent. Keith, sincerely or smartly, apologized immediately, and followed it up with a 2nd attempt. This works well for his case.
Was Keith careless with his stick and retaliated? Yes. But he got a penalty, so it's not like it went unpunished. Plus the Kings won. I know it has nothing to do with anything, but it seems like the NHL looks at how it affects the overall outcome of the game.
Carter isn't going miss any games either, so that's going to reduce any suspension.
Keith could just get a fine.
tiger tiger
Verified Trader
As long as Carter doesn't come out whining about how he got slashed in the face and how Keith is getting off easy, I'm okay with the chop. Playoff hockey. There's a lot of dirty stuff going on. Carter's no saint either, but I don't think Carter intentionally tried to chop Keith's bare hand. It looked like the glove and was to try to knock it out again as Keith was picking it up.
