Holding cards at 'ransom'

Orca Pod

Bitter, Jaded & Disillusioned!,
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Just curious if you have any stories about people having cards you 'need' for your PC, and if they are requesting an outrageous amount of trade or PayPal because they know you need it. I'm not talking things like 1/1 shileds or Gretzky autographs/3 or Richard cut autos or stuff like that... I'm talking about regular cards that wouldn't get more than about 40 bucks if they were on eBay.

I have two such cards: one is needed to help complete one of my Canuck HG yearly sets. Player is regarded a common by the hobby, but the dude wants a Crosby BD rookie AND two Expo Priority Signings /10.

The other one is an 06/07 Matt Cooke UD print plate. Guy wants the equivalent of 300 in trade value.

I can understand wanting the moon for top notch stuff, but for stuff from common players, I'd seriously rather go without.

Anyone else? Remember, not a rant thread, just curious.
 
This all happens due to a few factors.

1 the person holding cards knows you want it badly (either by you telling them you are a hard core collector of said player etc. or how hard you are going for the card. )

2 The person paid a lot for boxes,packs and cards were the best out of box so he's trying to recoup money.

3 Person is crazy and thinks that these cards are actual gold and he wants platinum for them.
 
Yes sir.Going through this right now as I find
some lower numbered 13/14 Titanium Jersey
# parallels I need for my set.It's been interesting
to say the least what some people think they have
in a numbered insert.
 
Here's mine:

http://www.comc.com/Cards/Hockey/2008-09/Upper_Deck_Victory_Black/28/Lee_Stempniak/7227498

The guy is a member on SCF - won't budge, offered him to try and trade him more desirable hockey stuff than Lee Stempniak, and his response was he collects "High-End Lebron James"

Sorry but no Lee Stempniak is worth High End Lebron James, let alone a Victory Parallel.

He also has this one I needed up until recently.

http://www.comc.com/Cards/Hockey/2005-06/Upper_Deck_Bee_Hive_Matte/97/Lee_Stempniak/3154301

I acquired one of these in a trade, and then one popped up on eBay. I didn't bid to see what it would go for without me trying to go for it, and it sold for under $5.

I'm at the point where I know I want the card and it frustrates me, but I just let it go and move on and wait for the next one.
 
There is another angle to consider.
For instance, sometimes I list a card and forget to put down the BO option.
In other cases I have not looked at recent card sales and just plum forget to go back and modify it.

However in most cases the buy usually contacts me and I come down to reality.

As for the Wendel Clark PC, I can' tell you how many times I have been contacted for a SP card of his and the price tag is ginormous. I have noticed that those cards show up much later for a fraction of the price. Just goes to show that being patient does work and there is no sense being upset over a card. If it came to that, I'd quit and move onto something that does not make my blood boil.

I have noticed the same thing with my Supreme PC. I always end up getting the card for way cheaper in the long run.
 
Here's mine:

http://www.comc.com/Cards/Hockey/2008-09/Upper_Deck_Victory_Black/28/Lee_Stempniak/7227498

The guy is a member on SCF - won't budge, offered him to try and trade him more desirable hockey stuff than Lee Stempniak, and his response was he collects "High-End Lebron James"


Haha...that seller is notorious by selling cheap cards with unreal prices like 15-16 OPC Rainbow with my PC-guy who usually goes for $1.25-$3.00 max buy you can never guess how much they wants for that card....

$39.99!

They're a huge joke, sorry just ignore them, not worth the time!
Plus they recently bought 3 Rink of Honors with my PC-guy cheapily from other sellers at comc and then lists them for $54.95 each one when they actually ususally goes for mostly at $15-$20 range now.....does they even have any customers after all?

-------------------------

I have a lot to telling about the concept of "holding cards at ransom" but it's not healthy for me since I has changed my collecting habits and never overpaying anymore no matter if I really wants the card so badly.

Not worth the pain who comes afterwards when you realizes that you don't have any $$$ remaining when another card surfaces the day after you bought the card which were held as a "hostage" for a outrageous sum of $$$ to obtaining that darn card.....

Just NEVER tell to the seller that you're a super-collector, die-hard collector or has been collecting that player since 19XX etc....otherwise you're getting screwed, TOTALLY screwed then like I has gotten into too many times earlier.
Unfortunately there're too many sellers who gets $$$-signs on their eyes so fast when they hears those words like I mentioned up above from you....
 
I think you guys are forgetting something. By definition, "ransom" refers to something that DOES NOT BELONG to the person who has it.

These cards belong to these people, thus they can ask whatever they like and it is up to you to decide whether or not to pay that price. If they are happy to hold onto the card until they get a certain price, then that is their choice to make. They are not holding a card for ransom, they are setting a price.

When you say that they are holding a card ransom, it makes you sound a bit entitled.

It doesn't matter that you are the largest collector of a specific player, if someone else owns that card, IT ISN'T YOURS. You are not entitled to it just because you are the largest collector of that player, or because you "NEED IT", all that you can do is decide what you are willing to pay for it, and if their price is too high, just move on.
 
I think you guys are forgetting something. By definition, "ransom" refers to something that DOES NOT BELONG to the person who has it.

These cards belong to these people, thus they can ask whatever they like and it is up to you to decide whether or not to pay that price. If they are happy to hold onto the card until they get a certain price, then that is their choice to make. They are not holding a card for ransom, they are setting a price.

When you say that they are holding a card ransom, it makes you sound a bit entitled.

It doesn't matter that you are the largest collector of a specific player, if someone else owns that card, IT ISN'T YOURS. You are not entitled to it just because you are the largest collector of that player, or because you "NEED IT", all that you can do is decide what you are willing to pay for it, and if their price is too high, just move on.


NOooooooooo, logic!
 
I agree with the wait it out thought. I had a 1 of 1 of one of my guys I collect and I was trying to getg a reasonable price from this seller. He ended up putting it on Ebay and I bought it for $30 when I originally offered $125.
 
I think you guys are forgetting something. By definition, "ransom" refers to something that DOES NOT BELONG to the person who has it.

These cards belong to these people, thus they can ask whatever they like and it is up to you to decide whether or not to pay that price. If they are happy to hold onto the card until they get a certain price, then that is their choice to make. They are not holding a card for ransom, they are setting a price.

When you say that they are holding a card ransom, it makes you sound a bit entitled.

It doesn't matter that you are the largest collector of a specific player, if someone else owns that card, IT ISN'T YOURS. You are not entitled to it just because you are the largest collector of that player, or because you "NEED IT", all that you can do is decide what you are willing to pay for it, and if their price is too high, just move on.

Okay. First off, in order to 'please' you, let's use the term 'hostage.' That should fit. That's holding something one wants in exchange for an exorbitant amount.

Second, I am not entitled to ANY card. Let's make that perfectly clear. If I felt I was entitled to a card, then I have far bigger personal issues to deal with than to worry about a piece of cardboard.

However, when someone contacts me, knowing I can use it for my collection, I'd say that's a pretty good indicator they wish to sell (or trade) it to me. I'm a pretty easy person to deal with (you can ask countless people on these boards, or look at the amount I am willing to pay for cards I 'need' on eBay).

When I ask you what you want for the card you contacted me about, it's not cool to demand an outrageous amount for it. I will always offer a fair amount. If you seem to think it's worth 25 times that, so be it. That is your prerogative; it's yours, you can ask what you want. But by asking an outrageous amount when you have absolutely no proof/statistics/sales figures to back up the demand, is holding the card 'hostage' or 'ransom.' By contacting me in the first place, you have given indication that you wish to part with the card, and want me to have it.

The one card has been going on for years. I get contacted every few months asking if I am ready to 'pay what it's worth.' No, I'm not willing to pay what YOU think it's worth. I've even been told it will be listed on eBay and that I will be a blocked bidder (as if that would stop me...).

End result, dude is stuck with a card that no one will buy or trade for, all because he thinks I will break.

And that was what this thread was supposed to be about; whether or not you had run into situations like this with 'non-super-de-dooper-prime' cards. It was not meant to be a semantics discussion, or meant to be a thread accusing people you don't know about being entitled.

There you go!
 
Haha...that seller is notorious by selling cheap cards with unreal prices like 15-16 OPC Rainbow with my PC-guy who usually goes for $1.25-$3.00 max buy you can never guess how much they wants for that card....

$39.99!

They're a huge joke, sorry just ignore them, not worth the time!
Plus they recently bought 3 Rink of Honors with my PC-guy cheapily from other sellers at comc and then lists them for $54.95 each one when they actually ususally goes for mostly at $15-$20 range now.....does they even have any customers after all?

-------------------------

Haha, I've encountered the same.
 
Okay. First off, in order to 'please' you, let's use the term 'hostage.' That should fit. That's holding something one wants in exchange for an exorbitant amount.

Second, I am not entitled to ANY card. Let's make that perfectly clear. If I felt I was entitled to a card, then I have far bigger personal issues to deal with than to worry about a piece of cardboard.

However, when someone contacts me, knowing I can use it for my collection, I'd say that's a pretty good indicator they wish to sell (or trade) it to me. I'm a pretty easy person to deal with (you can ask countless people on these boards, or look at the amount I am willing to pay for cards I 'need' on eBay).

When I ask you what you want for the card you contacted me about, it's not cool to demand an outrageous amount for it. I will always offer a fair amount. If you seem to think it's worth 25 times that, so be it. That is your prerogative; it's yours, you can ask what you want. But by asking an outrageous amount when you have absolutely no proof/statistics/sales figures to back up the demand, is holding the card 'hostage' or 'ransom.' By contacting me in the first place, you have given indication that you wish to part with the card, and want me to have it.

The one card has been going on for years. I get contacted every few months asking if I am ready to 'pay what it's worth.' No, I'm not willing to pay what YOU think it's worth. I've even been told it will be listed on eBay and that I will be a blocked bidder (as if that would stop me...).

End result, dude is stuck with a card that no one will buy or trade for, all because he thinks I will break.

And that was what this thread was supposed to be about; whether or not you had run into situations like this with 'non-super-de-dooper-prime' cards. It was not meant to be a semantics discussion, or meant to be a thread accusing people you don't know about being entitled.

There you go!

Yes, There I go indeed.

You really showed me.

Getting back to the original topic of the thread, no I've never myself run into this situation.

If someone has a card I want and they tell me their price, I either accept it, counter it, or in cases like this where I feel that our values are not really lining up, I just say thanks but no thanks and move on. The card is theirs they have the right to ask whatever they like. It doesn't mean that it will sell at that price, but that's their problem.

Also, just to clarify:

RANSOM:the redemption of a prisoner, slave, or kidnapped person, of captured goods, etc., for a price.

These cards you're talking about haven't been captured from you, this individual is their legal owner. Hence why I feel like the term ransom is inappropriate in this specific instance, and how it kind of makes it seem like you feel that you are the rightful heir to these cards.


I'm sorry if you didn't like my OPINION on the matter. Maybe next time don't ask for opinions in a public forum if you're going to act like 4 year old when someone says something that doesn't stroke your ego.
 
Unfortunately this is what our hobby has come to. I come across investors more so than collectors half the time. Know you collect a certain person and know you'd overpay. Even trades, they'll present their card as immortal and your cards are mediocre. This is one part of the hobby I hate most to the point I've left the hobby solely because of this. The frustrations of being taken advantage of just got the better of me. Hopefully you end up finding the cards you need in a different ave.
 
I have been in contact with a couple people in the past that would like a few cards I have that they need for sets and I've told both of them when they can show me their set is complete minus the one card that I have that need, that we will figure something out. I just don't feel the need to move PC cards to people when it only puts them one step closer and doesn't complete it. Hope this makes sense to everyone.
 
I have had no problem in the past flipping a card someone needed for their set. I was completing a 1-99 autograph set and I had Ted Lindsay as my #7. Well the Lindsay card I had happened to be one that was needed for a set. I told the user as long as I got a hard signed Lindsay AU in return I would be fine trading it.

I had a lot of trouble in the past trying to make deals for Patrick Roy cards I needed for my BTP sets but as was said above I would try to make the deal and if it didn't work out I would move on.

If, in the case of Randy, I was contacted by someone with a card and they were dangling it in front of my face I would likely be upset as well. Obviously someone is just trying to gouge and they can as it is their card.
 
Here's mine:

http://www.comc.com/Cards/Hockey/2008-09/Upper_Deck_Victory_Black/28/Lee_Stempniak/7227498

The guy is a member on SCF - won't budge, offered him to try and trade him more desirable hockey stuff than Lee Stempniak, and his response was he collects "High-End Lebron James"

Sorry but no Lee Stempniak is worth High End Lebron James, let alone a Victory Parallel.

He also has this one I needed up until recently.

http://www.comc.com/Cards/Hockey/2005-06/Upper_Deck_Bee_Hive_Matte/97/Lee_Stempniak/3154301

I acquired one of these in a trade, and then one popped up on eBay. I didn't bid to see what it would go for without me trying to go for it, and it sold for under $5.

I'm at the point where I know I want the card and it frustrates me, but I just let it go and move on and wait for the next one.

What a Rayof 33lights.

The odd sidebar above, there's definitely more than a few guys out there that will ignore all the evidence and reality of a particular player's values. There's a Gorges letter out there that will be in Russia for many years at his current ask price. Literally 5x what was paid for another copy and I just don't need it that badly.
 
What a Rayof 33lights.

The odd sidebar above, there's definitely more than a few guys out there that will ignore all the evidence and reality of a particular player's values. There's a Gorges letter out there that will be in Russia for many years at his current ask price. Literally 5x what was paid for another copy and I just don't need it that badly.

Probably one of the worst parts of COMC is the shining Ray of 33 lights.
 
I do think some of the people on COMC send in cards to show off . The high price they put is in case someone decides they need it bad enough to buy .
 
Several years ago, I remember being approached online by a guy who had just pulled a Ranford Auto / Jersey limited to 5 copies. Set was brand new that week. Did I have one already? Did I want it?

Of course I was interested, and the conversation went something like this:


Yes, I'd be very interested. What were you looking for on it?
Make me an offer
Okay, I'd pay you $80 for it
Well, I've had another offer of $250 for it, but I really think it belongs in your collection. I'd sell it to you for $230, and that will include express / tracked delivery from the USA
Thanks, but I'm going to have to pass. That's a lot more money than I'm willing to spend, and a lot more money than I've seen any comparable Ranford stuff sell for in the last year. Great offer though, I'd jump all over that if I were you, before the other guy changes his mind.


That was the last I heard from him for about a week. About a week later I get a message telling me that I can have it for $150, but that's as low as he'd go. My reply was something like:

"Sorry. Not really interested anymore. I already picked up another copy. That sucks that your other offer fell through."

Of course there was no $250 offer. I never believe there was for even a second. Why did a price drop so much? Because one sold on eBay for $65 (to me).

What happens next? It was listed on eBay for $250 for a while, I think may have been relisted a few times under different prices, and eventually went up for a cheap start bid auction, and it sold for less than $40.



There's lots of people out there that do it though. If they have a 1/1 card, it's worth a ton. If they have something really rare... their prices will reflect that. Who is pictured on the card doesn't seem to matter. $200 for a Lee Stempniak Victory Black? That's a joke. Maybe if Stempniak collects his own cards, he might not care and pull the trigger? That's about it though.

For me though - I stopped caring about this kind of thing (for myself) a long time ago. Anytime I've seen a Ranford really overpriced, it either eventually comes down in price.... or another copy (at a reasonable price) shows up, and I get it then. If a card is released in the fall of 2015, and I have to wait until the summer of 2016 to own a copy.... I'll survive. I promise. If I never own a copy? I'll probably survive too, lol.



Of course, this is the flip side to "Sorry, your low numbered card I want is only worth $5, and that's all I'm paying." (not saying this is the case with the OP, or anyone in particular..... but we all know it's a thing).

I bought a ITG parallel of a common player the other day.... it was numbered /10. I was more interested in the crest on the player's jersey than the player himself. I paid the opening bid of 99 cents. Does that mean it's "worth" 99 cents? I guess?? I know it would take more than $5 to pry it from my collection though.

Because there's a lot of rip & flip people out there, there's a lot of sellers that will blow their cards out for rock bottom prices.... and cards limited to 25 copies (or less) often sell for a couple of bucks: I think too many of us expect that $2 or $5 or something like that is an appropriate price to pay for that kind of stuff.... and I will admit that I can't blame sellers for holding out for a better return than that.


My brother collects a fair amount (not active online at all though, other than eBay) and last year had a line that I think had a pretty good perspective on the topic. He's been slowly picking away at SPGU Jersey #ed Rookie Cards (using auto'd parallels for cards he can't track down, or the price is too high for his liking).

We were @ the Expo in Toronto, and a dealer was selling a Mike Kostka SPGU RC. Not exactly a big name player, and limited to 6 (I think) copies. "How much do you want for it?" (it was one he needed) "I'd take $140". He agreed, and paid the guy $140.

I made a comment about that being a lot of money for a card of Mike Kostka. His reply?

"If I busted a box, for $140, and pulled it I'd be thrilled to actually pull a card this rare, that I need - even if everything else I got was junk. I don't mind paying for his box, at all, to get this card."

Now, I'm not saying an Artifacts Parallel /25 should pay for the box.... but I think too often (and I include myself in this) we expect that we'll get that card for next to nothing, despite it being pretty rare. If we genuinely don't care if we get it or not.... I guess that's one thing..... but when we're actively searing for a card that's fairly limited, and then aren't willing to pay something that's worth seller's while..... that's probably just as frustrating.


"If this was a 99 cent auction, I'd win it for less than $5." It might be true, but if there are no 99 cent auctions available now.... or going to be in the foreseeable future... does it matter, if we really want that card and have been searching for a while already?

Of course I still think $200 for a tough to find parallel of a common player is a complete joke, and anyone actually asking that much should be ashamed of themselves.... but if more people were willing to plunk down $25 for cards like that, instead of $5, we might see less crazy pricing out there.
 

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