Fake Patches and Trimmed High End Cards

[Triple B]

There's a dude on Blowoutcards that is exposing some SERIOUS shenanigans going on with specific sellers that are faking patches and trimming cards using high end paper cutters (that cut down to fractions of a millimeter) and he's pointed out one card that might be of interest to some here.

NOTE: I plan on sending the poster an invite to HI to post some of this stuff here instead of me linking to Blowout.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1293346

Gomaz even gets a shoutout in this thread...

 

[dismonkey1]

Nice info- it is a shame unfortunately. I don't necessarily blame PWCC. They have a huge inventory of consignments to sell. It would be virtually impossible to pre-investigate every card. Taking action against the seller would be great, especially if they could refer it to the authorities. Putting a couple of these folks in jail would help cut down on the frauds.

 

[gobuffalo2331]

I saw those threads recently too and was blown away by what I was seeing. What a shame. Lets keep posting stuff like this so not of us get robbed.

 

[sjw241]

I find it funny PWCC chimed in on that thread. I guess they are trying to save face. But in all honesty it would be very tough for them to verify every card they get for consignment.

 

[SimonJa]

I find it funny PWCC chimed in on that thread. I guess they are trying to save face. But in all honesty it would be very tough for them to verify every card they get for consignment.

Im glad they did...they didnt have to...they could have just pretended not to see the thread. I agree it would be next to impossible for them to research each and every card that they sell. I for one am satisfied that

A: They rufuse to list the card
and

B: Hold the consignor responsible and prohibit them from submitting in the future ( Not sure they would actually do this but I can dream)

 

[creasecollector]

I'm in the original thread and I was very glad to see PWCC make an appearance on those boards.

I hope they can keep up with that sort of online presence so they can become aware of these patch faked cards.

 

[g-force]

B: Hold the consignor responsible and prohibit them from submitting in the future ( Not sure they would actually do this but I can dream)

Not sure you'll see this happen. Many times the person submitting the card may not know that it is a fake patch. Given how many times these high end Cup cards trade hands, it's impossible to know who switched out the patch and who is the dupe.

 

[quincy]

Agreed. I think at present, the best we can expect is that they refuse to list altered cards once presented with provenance.

 

[Zorro]

For all you collectors dropping big $ on patch cards. At what point do you decide to call it "quits"?

 

[porschegt3]

Agreed. I think at present, the best we can expect is that they refuse to list altered cards once presented with provenance.

PWCC did just that. The fake Crosby Cup ARP 3clr that is now listed as altered from Prob was slated to be auctioned at PWCC. I sent them pics and proof and they took it off their auction. :clap:

 

[quincy]

PWCC did just that. The fake Crosby Cup ARP 3clr that is now listed as altered from Prob was slated to be auctioned at PWCC. I sent them pics and proof and they took it off their auction. :clap:

Abso. I wasn't criticizing them, though that wasn't clear in the previous post.

This also seems to be the new way of things, that the trimmers and swatch fakers are using consigners as the vehicle to legitimize their cards.

 

[trekrun]

^^^^^^^ and sell them off in the hands of consigners!

 

[gobuffalo2331]

^^^ BINGO! What a great way to be a fraud and mask your identity. Have someone else sell your fake stuff and nobody really knows who it's coming from.

 

[guyaguar]

I've been in and out of the hobby the last 4 or 5 years. Really got my feet off the ground recently and been debating if I should dabble in it again. After this newest "Find" on Blowout, maybe I'll just stick to collecting Lemieux again, if I do come back. If there's this many altered PSA 10/BGS 9.5's for 2 players....this can only be a small portion of the issue. So many scumbags in this hobby now. It's so pathetic!

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1293843

 

[Iceman]

This also seems to be the new way of things, that the trimmers and swatch fakers are using consigners as the vehicle to legitimize their cards.

Buy from who you know seems to be the only way to combat it.

Or pull it yourself I guess.

 

[gobuffalo2331]

OR go back and collect low end stuff like I've been doing. Just as much fun and not much of gamble. Very affordable too.

 

[Triple B]

I reached out to the gentleman doing the investigative work and he offered this:

I think I will do that when it comes time to post some of the bigger stuff down the road a bit. That'll be when I really get going on calling out trimmed cards sold by PWCC. Hockey has a major presence in all that, unfortunately. Until then, I'm going to have to rely on others to pass along one-off cards like the McDavid.

My hockey knowledge is very slim though, so all I'm really finding is stuff I stumble upon while looking into other things. All I know for sure is that the vast majority of trimmed hockey cards are the Young Guns, YG Canvas, and the like, and those totally untraceable.

If any hockey cards are posted by him, I will try my best to post them here (unless it's shown that these posts aren't wanted). I suspect others watching these posts on BO will also post them when they see them.

The evidence he has posted is pretty damning to a few sellers and as well to PWCC, who seems to be in on some of the "restorations" of vintage cards he's pointing out.

 

[junyab]

I wonder if we can estimate a cut off point in the serial numbers of the graded cards, like everything below ser. # _____ is most likely fine but anything above ser. # _____ has the potential of being trimmed.

I'd like to buy a Crosby YG BGS 9.5, but I won't be buying anything that was recently graded. But how far back do I have to go to be sure this trimming practice wasn't around then?!?!

 

[capsfan30]

I wonder if we can estimate a cut off point in the serial numbers of the graded cards, like everything below ser. # _____ is most likely fine but anything above ser. # _____ has the potential of being trimmed.

I'm not really sure you can make that assumption. How would you even be able to determine that? It's not like it used to be where cards came out in waves.

I'd like to buy a Crosby YG BGS 9.5, but I won't be buying anything that was recently graded. But how far back do I have to go to be sure this trimming practice wasn't around then?!?!

I'd imagine trimming to some degree has been around for a while. I'm not sure how to determine if one was trimmed or not before grading. As was mentioned, it is nearly impossible to track them since they aren't serial numbered.

 

[junyab]

I'm not really sure you can make that assumption. How would you even be able to determine that? It's not like it used to be where cards came out in waves.



I'd imagine trimming to some degree has been around for a while. I'm not sure how to determine if one was trimmed or not before grading. As was mentioned, it is nearly impossible to track them since they aren't serial numbered.

It's all assumptions but I think undetectable trimming hasn't been around for a super long time if we're just hearing about it a lot now, so maybe it's only been a thing the last couple of years. Perhaps I could find a card I know to have been graded say in 2015, and maybe assume that any serial numbers that are lower than the one graded in 2015 maybe I'd be safe to think it hasn't been trimmed. I know this is far from an exact science but could it not be, in theory, a way to lower the risk of getting a tampered card?