UD Redemption Break (Replacements Requested)

[Rwolfrom]

So bit of a story with this...

Ended up buying the first triple auto (Miller/Briere/Drury) that came onto ebay when SPA was first released last year. And the card turns out to be a redemption. I ended up paying an even $100 for the card and didnt mind redemptions. So I redeem it immediately and it gives me the old athlete commited line. No big deal. I've never had a triple hard signed auto and this being the three top players on my team, I'll gladly wait it out. Fast forward 2 weeks and all of a sudden 3 triple auto's appear on ebay. This time though they aren't redemptions! They are all very nice hard signed in hand cards. I call Barry and he explains that there should be no redemptions for this and that someone screwed up. I hang up and call back talking to someone else and the next person tells me that one of the athletes hasnt signed. So whatever, i'll still wait it out. 6 months later, the the Sabres have traded both Drury and Briere and i've now called for a replacement card. They send me my card, and 3 weeks ago it never shows. I have to complete a form saying I've never received anything and go through the process again. This time I did receive the cards though. I asked for Miller, Sabres, or another triple auto.

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06/07 SPA Triple Autograph Peca/Tucker/Raycroft
06/07 SPA Dual Autograph SOTT Latendresse (sp?)/Ryder

I do think it was an even replacement though nothing like sending a Sabres fan Habs and Leafs wned:. Thoughts? Comments? Sorry for the long read!

 

[MMarch]

So, they put a redemption card into a product, and the card isn't even a redemption? Then they make you wait 6 months, and you don't get the card you redeemed? You ask for Sabres and they send you Leafs and Habs?

Par for the course with UD, they have monkeys in charge of the apes there. Nothing has changed, still the same empty promises and excuses for not being able to do their job properly.......... :rtfm:

 

[cards-gotta-go]

You're the second one to get that Brutal leafs triple in the last few days... guess that's the "gold standard" for replacement triples - 3 players that are:
gone / going to get bought out / riding pine forever
nice triple. :roll:

Good luck with UDCS.

 

[tprickett]

i'm still waiting for my 06/07 SPGU gretzky letter marks card !! i redemeemed this thing in a year ago ! the worst.

 

[MMarch]

Excuses, excuses. Why was the redemption even put into packs when it wasn't a redemption to begin with? Oh, that's right, according to a knowledgable UD employee, someone "screwed up." GO FIGURE. So they make the guy wait 6 months and he never receives the card he redeemed.

Here's a glaring question for the UD apologists, where's the replacement stock for that card? It wasn't a redemption, they were packed out, but they keep a certain amount of replacement stock on hand. So why didn't they have one for him?

It's funny how the apologists always try to put a spin on things to stick up for their buddies at UD. Yet, UD created the problem themselves, let them fight their own battles.

Sorry, but I think he got screwed on that replacement. He didn't get Miller or Sabres, yes he got a triple and a double, but for the "screw up" and hassle they could have done a better. The triple is a joke if you really think about it, and the double, meh.

 

[oasis]

Goes back to the questions we have all asked many times..

Why have redemptions at all..?

Its a matter of expectations and in the end, or at least in this case, disappointment.

 

[cards-gotta-go]

Like I've said before, better manufacturing processes and better communication, both internally and externally, would do wonders for Upper Deck. Maybe they should hire me as a consultant?

Chris is right in that you can't make replacement stock for everything, but I think that at some point, you do have to have some sort of replacement safety stock for anything that's not numbered (young guns, etc), as well as any numbered product down to, oh let's say 250. That's just good manufacturing practice, and goes a long way to satisfying your customers.

And that's 6 years of working in the printing industry talking - we ALWAYS did that, just in case a customer found a printing issue with their products - overs, while hurt the bottom line a little, losing customers hurt the bottom line more.

 

[MMarch]

And better manufacturing and QA costs money. UD cuts corners to get the product to us.

You really believe that they cut costs and do some of the things they do for "us"? You need to wake up and join the real world Chris. There is one reason and one reason only for cutting corners, $$$. They couldn't care any less about the collectors, all they care about is charging that credit card or account. Please, if they cared one damn bit about the collectors, they wouldn't have released SPGU in it's horrid condition. But they are exclusive, they don't care, and they are already telling people "Sorry, inventory depleted".

Bottom line, they screwed up on this repalcement, they screwed up by putting the redemption in the packs since it wasn't even a redemption to begin with, and they screwed up by giving him two cards that are not even close in reality to what he redeemed. They should have done a better job getting him Sabres before throwing out the garbage no one else has asked for. I wonder why we have seen 3 of those triple Leafs surface in the last week or two, but, they don't have any of the triple Sabres cards. Hmm, interesting.

 

[MMarch]

Did I say "for" us or "to" us? Getting the product "to" us is what gets them money. Try reading instead of reacting.

What's the difference Chris? They wanted to get the product "to us". Why? because they think people would rather have a product with massive damage across the entire production run quicker, instead of taking some extra time to make sure they put a quality product out "to us"? If you believe that's why they did it, ask yourself this. Would the majority of collectors rather have:

A. Product with low percentage of damage, but it took an extra 2-4 weeks to get it.

OR

B. Product with tons of hammered cards, and almot ZERO QC stock to replace them? Then have UD tell you, "Sorry, we rushed the product out the door, we knew it had massive QC problem, we do not have replacement stock for the cast majority of the cards, and due to our "policy", you are stuck with your damaged junk now and we will not do anything for you.

 

[thegamebrain]

Way too many threads end like this. Guys, we know UD sucks, we do. Truly we do. Even Chris knows they suck. He does. We all really really do.

Until more competition shows up, we have to deal with what's out there if we want to break boxes. So... let's all agree they suck and move on.

As for redemptions, it's a gamble. It shouldn't be, but it is. It's a fact collecting in 2008 that once in a while, you'll pull a redemption.

Sorry they gave you 2 teams you don't collect, but that's the risk you run when buying redemptions.

Did I mention UD sucks?

 

[cards-gotta-go]

yeah...that would help UD's reputation. Imagine the outrage they would incur if they had a secret pile of 100 Crosby YG rookies sitting around for replacements.

People would be damaging cards and buying up redemptions just to get a Sid YG. Do you think they'd ask for Mancari YG's as replacements?

And better manufacturing and QA costs money. UD cuts corners to get the product to us. I don't agree with a lot of their assembly line routines. But if they did change them, the cost to do so would also raise the price we pay for products exponentially. Not to mention turn a 3 week delayed release date into a 3 month delayed release date. And then they'd still screw some stuff up...haha.

Not what I meant... and you know it. I'm talking about manufacturing enough overs for 1:1 replacements of the same card. It'd eliminate more than 50% of these replacements for cards that no longer are replacable...

 

[cards-gotta-go]

Upper Deck is smart enough to know that there are some cards that they should have a replacement stock of, for example: Young Guns. There is no reason on earth to not do that. That's just intelligent thinking. After a set time has passed, a la ITG's policy (12/24 months or whatever), shred the extras.

You would be amazed at how low the incremental cost of printing 10,500 of an item as opposed to 10,000. Amazed.

And nobody in this thread ever said double. I'm suggesting 3-5% of the initial run/pack out... at least then you can satisfy SOME of your customers if they get damaged cards out of packs.

And on the auto cards: I can see how the hard-signed stuff would cause problems. However, with the amounts of sticker autos in the hobby these days, storing the auto cards without stickers only costs UD the value of the printing. Save the autos and use if/when needed on a 1-off basis.

Maybe I should be consulting for them...

 

[MMarch]

Upper Deck is smart enough to know that there are some cards that they should have a replacement stock of, for example: Young Guns. There is no reason on earth to not do that. That's just intelligent thinking. After a set time has passed, a la ITG's policy (12/24 months or whatever), shred the extras.

You would be amazed at how low the incremental cost of printing 10,500 of an item as opposed to 10,000. Amazed.

And nobody in this thread ever said double. I'm suggesting 3-5% of the initial run/pack out... at least then you can satisfy SOME of your customers if they get damaged cards out of packs.

And on the auto cards: I can see how the hard-signed stuff would cause problems. However, with the amounts of sticker autos in the hobby these days, storing the auto cards without stickers only costs UD the value of the printing. Save the autos and use if/when needed on a 1-off basis.

Maybe I should be consulting for them...

Sorry, they would never hire anyone who has knowledge of manufacturing, or running their own business. They only want people who won't buck the system, and will only stick to the response sheet typed up for them by McWilliam.

You obviously know what it takes to run a business the right way, which means caring about the customer and not just how much money you can put in your pocket. UD is just another mega-corporatio who is allowed to get away with shady business practices in todays corporate America. they are trying to buy up all the competition and have a monopoly. It already shows in their current SOP, screw the customers, if they want cards they will buy ours no matter how bad we stick it to them. Typical corporate mentality these says.

 

[pathshot]

He asked for Miller, Sabres, OR another triple auto. They gave him exactly what he asked for. And another dual auto as well.

Why does everyone think if you ask UD for a certain player or team, that they have an imaginary stock pile of those players sitting around. They try to fill requests based on what they have in redemption replacement stock. Just because you ask for Sid, doesn't mean you'll get one.

As for the swap out, it's tough to say whether you did better or worse. The Leafs are a more popular team, but the Sabres had a few better players. However, two thirds of the Sabres players aren't even on the card anymore. That would probably decrease demand for it.

Still, at least they managed to get you a triple for a triple instead of a triple for three single Afinogenov autos.

I thought you gave up on this role?

In a day where autographs are on stickers and blue jerseys show up on Red Wings, it is not unreasonable to ask that people be able to get something comparable to what they're supposed to be receiving.

I know "the business" works one way, and customer expectations go another. There's no real need for that wide a disparity to exist, especially given the cost by the end customer.

Think about all the things you spent $100 on, and how many of them are exactly what you expected.

-Michael

 

[pathshot]

They do produce a certain allotment for replacements. But guess what...in cases like SPGU when the initial run had tons of QA issues before it was packed out, those replacements then became the actual run. And that stock gets depleted fast.

I believe the number they make is higher than 3-5% also for replacements. But think about that. That's not a lot. If a card has a print run of 100, then that's 3-5 replacements. So first come, first serve. If ten get damaged in transit, or by an overeager pack breaker, then four people are SOL.

If a product is subject to 10% of it being damaged before the product makes it to the consumer - and you're not selling perishables, it's time to modify your logistics.

-Michael

 

[thegamebrain]

If a product is subject to 10% of it being damaged before the product makes it to the consumer - and you're not selling perishables, it's time to modify your logistics.

-Michael

Great quote. Think UD executives read this stuff? From a management point of view, this is great.

 

[MMarch]

If a product is subject to 10% of it being damaged before the product makes it to the consumer - and you're not selling perishables, it's time to modify your logistics.

-Michael

The percentage in SPGU was higher then 10%, yet they made the decision to pack it out anyways. They then made the decision to not make, or have additional QC backstock available. Then they had the nerve to tell people they are out of replacement stock (when they never had any for a lot of the cards) and that they would not offer other compensation for their poor judgement in releasing it as is.

Find me any other manufacturer that accepts 10% or higher defect rate, and I will show you a company you need to sell your stock in very quickly. Even Taiwan and China have higher QC standards then that.

 

[cards-gotta-go]

If a product is subject to 10% of it being damaged before the product makes it to the consumer - and you're not selling perishables, it's time to modify your logistics.

-Michael

Very well said... +1.

If you KNOW a product will have lower yields, the dump up your production accordingly. Upper Deck just brings so much wrath on itself all in the name of pinching a penny here and there...

... if they manufactured product using sound manufacturing principles, it would actually save them money in the long run... but I really don't expect them to change things anytime before I'm 6 feet in the ground. As long a people keep buying like they do, UD will keep going along like they do... which is unfortunate, and it makes all of us manufacturing people want to pull our hair out...

:beer:

 

[will-411]

Find me any other manufacturer that accepts 10% or higher defect rate, and I will show you a company you need to sell your stock in very quickly. Even Taiwan and China have higher QC standards then that.

Sigh... and find me another set of consumers that know exactly what to expect, then complain when they find it in the product. I totally agree UD's QA/QC sucks, but they have NO INCENTIVE TO CHANGE IT! People keep sending $1000's their way, and sure they grumble while they do it, but they keep sending them the money. There is no reason for UD to change their practices.

Back to the opriginal topic, I think you did okay with the replacement. As has been explained before, sometimes UD gets the actual autos during pack out process and inserts the live cards, even though the redemptions are already seeded. Maybe a bad idea, but it happens.

Cory

 

[MMarch]

Sigh... and find me another set of consumers that know exactly what to expect, then complain when they find it in the product. I totally agree UD's QA/QC sucks, but they have NO INCENTIVE TO CHANGE IT! People keep sending $1000's their way, and sure they grumble while they do it, but they keep sending them the money. There is no reason for UD to change their practices.

Cory

Hold on a second here Cory. This is not the typical UD QC issue we are talking about. This is a specific issue with a specific product. Yes, UD has poor QC across the board. However, this is a completely isolated issue. The QC on this product was worse then anything they have ever produced, and specifically because of the new facility these cards came out of. They knew the defect rate was way higher on this product, yet they packed it out anyways. How would most people know this product was coming out of the new facility before it did? Most people I know who ripped it either pre-ordered, or bought it the day it came out. The massive QC issues and reason for the QC issues did not come out until a couple days after it went live. I think a lot of people who normally would have bought boxes or cases would have passed and just sniffed out singles if they knew how horrid the QC was on the product before it was released, and they certainly would have passed once they found out UD was not going to supply additional (or any) replacement inventory.