Does This Cut Look Stamped Instead Of Signed?

J

jaywings19

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This item just ended on eBay last night. I was tempted to bid, but the "signature" did not convince me this was a true autograph.

In my opinion, this appears to be either a rubber stamp or autopen signature. I do not see any convincing "stress marks" that indicate change of pen pressure during the signature. The signature just seems too fluid.

Does anybody have a James Norris cut signature image from ITG to compare?

JN.jpg
 
looks good to me. Back then a signature meant something and people put time into them so I could see how you'd think it looked stamped. You can see the irregularities in the pen he used especially in the R's in Norris
 
at a quick glance i'm going to say it's not a stamp, where the lines cross in the N it seems as if the ink is heavier there as well as on the loop on the bottom of the s.
 
the 2 are completely different.

The other one is here in Edmonton, next time I'm at West's I'll take a look at it.
 
Fritz said:
at a quick glance i'm going to say it's not a stamp, where the lines cross in the N it seems as if the ink is heavier there as well as on the loop on the bottom of the s.
Click to expand...

Thats what got me too, like to get a closer look at it.
 
I don't think there is any way somebody, even UD or JSA would authenticate a signature if it was an autopen (which I don't think even existed back then) or a stamp, since they are blatently obvious to the naked eye. A forgery I could perhaps see getting through, but not a stamp.

But even that being said, I think there are some consistencies with an actual signature, noticably the fact that the signature appears to get lighter in shade as it goes along which would indicate a felt tip pen.
 
Looks like an inkwell style pen was used...looks legit to me. Autopen is out of the question while a stamp would be a little more messy around the edges, especially if Norris was using a stamp to "sign" official documents.
 
TanguayFan said:
I don't think there is any way somebody, even UD or JSA would authenticate a signature if it was an autopen (which I don't think even existed back then) or a stamp, since they are blatently obvious to the naked eye. A forgery I could perhaps see getting through, but not a stamp.

But even that being said, I think there are some consistencies with an actual signature, noticably the fact that the signature appears to get lighter in shade as it goes along which would indicate a felt tip pen.
Click to expand...


Unfortunately Rob there's a long history of stamped/autopened cards being graded and authenticated - even by Spence. The highest profile I can remember was that of a stamped Dimaggio auto which came from a cheque from the early 60's - so the methods were definitely in place years ago.

As for the card in question I'd lean heavily toward a stamped sig but without seeing in person it's really tough to call. The one thing that screams stamp to me is the waviness of the ink on every stroke - looks very consistent with most signature stamps I've seen. Looks like ink that was forced outward from stamping, normal writing does not create that effect regardless of writing instrument used.


Darren
 
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That looks more like a fountain pen than anything else. They require very little pressure from nib to page.
 
Auto pen or not, im surprised UD put the right signature on it and not an upside down Grant Fuhr one. :D


It is hard to say. I am going to going with one of those old inkwell pens. It doesnt have the same consistancy throughout the signature. And to take the time to line up the stamp so well with the signature line, would just be a waste of time.
 
It's a cheque. If signed by an autopen, it wouldn't be cashable, especially in the day and age it was written.

Looks legit to me. Especially the letter "N".
 
nauticalcounsel said:
It's a cheque. If signed by an autopen, it wouldn't be cashable, especially in the day and age it was written.

Looks legit to me. Especially the letter "N".
Click to expand...


Actually autopens/stamped certification have been used on cheques for a long time and are certainly cashable. Look at ANY government issued (or most larger companies as well ) cheque - the endorsements are autopenned.

Darren
 
When I first saw the autograph, I looked at it and thought "Looks like a fountain pen" to which I see Steve and Ron have said the same thing. The thing that makes me think it's legit and not an autopen is the way the ink continues to fade while the autograph reaches the end. It might just be my eyes deceiving me, but "Norris" in contrast to "James" seems to be a little lighter.

This also seems like a very miniscule detail, but it seems to me that a signature stickler using an autopen would probably have it perfectly dot their Is a little more symmetrical to the letter itself, where this one starts at a weird angle and ends facing outward to the I in Norris farther from the letter than perfect, which is consistent to the autograph Tina listed, where the dot is pretty well just over the S.
 

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