Recognizing eBay as the market reference for card prices

[gallinator]

Recently I've seen comments indicating an unwillingness to recognize that eBay is the de facto reference point for cards that are easily obtainable - i.e. cards that have a print run of, say, about 50 or more.

It has been apparent to me that eBay sales results have set the market for at least the past 15 years or so. To deny this is to deny literally millions of data points that are completed sales.

This shows up in the prices that some people on HI ask for their cards, whose threads are ultimately a waste of time if I can just go to eBay and get one just like it for far less.

Apparently this is a taboo subject if one tries to address this in a sales thread where it is observed (as Steve Martin used to say, "Well, excuuuUUuuuse me!" ), so I'm laying it out here in general terms.

If you are one of those who doesn't recognize eBay completed sales as valid price references, what is your reasoning? I really would like to know.

Thanks!

 

[30ranfordfan]

I agree with your point, but only to a point.

If I am looking to place a "value" on a card, that value will be based on the actual amount of money I think I can get for the card - not what some book tells me it's worth.

There are a lot of "BUTs" to this point.


First off, the most popular price guide out there..... Beckett..... it does not tell you what the value of a single card is. Not one. It is a horrible mirepresentation of the data they present in their guide. They offer a range that the value of the card should fall in.

So right away, this is the one of the big problems when trying to trade (or sell / buy) based on "book value". I have a card with LO value being $40, and HI value being $100. You've got one with the same LO / HI values. But yours routinly sells for $85, and mine for $40. You would be crazy to trade cards with me - based on the idea that they are worth "the same".

Now, I'm not really trying to sell you on this idea. The fact that you want to discount the price guide completely, and go based on eBay, tells me that you probably agree with what I just said anyway. I do think that's the biggest problem with the book - most of us want to think our collections have value, so we tend to look at the HI value only, and say "it's worth $X".

So, once you start reading the price guides correctly, I would suggest the difference between "eBay value" and "book value" are not a whole lot. It's just that more often than not, eBay prices reflect the lower end of that price range the book publishes.


Going back to the origional point, I do like that you said "easily obtainable" and suggested 50+ copies (though there are lots of cards that are 10 years old, have tripple that number of copies, and are no longer easily obtainable).

That idea / those numbers - I think are pretty fair.

I think there are a lot of people out there that tend to look at eBay sales, and will point to the highest or lowest sale (depending if they are the seller or buyer) and then calll that the "sale value". I think to take an honest look at the real value of the card.... if you've got 20 confirmed sales (for example) throw away the two highest and two lowest prices, and take an average of the remaining 16. Throw away more on the extreme ends if you have more sales.

But even then, eBay can be a very misleading place. The time of day the auction ends has a big effect. So do shipping costs, and countries that the seller is willing to ship to. How good was the listing? Some sellers are much better at listing their cards (make them easier to find) than others do.

Did the seller have multiple cards that a single buyer wanted? I know I've done this plenty of times.... once I've bought 1 card from a seller, I'll look to grab others from him that I might need. That I'm already comited to paying this guy to ship - I may now pay a premium to buy from him multiple times, rather than branch out to other sellers.

I also don't think that what we would call "sale value" on a form (on eBay) necessarily applies outside of the internet. I mean, if a card sells for $25 on eBay.... and I try selling it hear.... I'd expect to get about the same $25 for it.


But if you buy a card for $25 on eBay, you're likely paying $28 (or more?) for it, with shipping costs. While that's a part of doing business, don't expect that a seller at a show (or store) is going to care that they're charging $5 more than the last completed sale on eBay. I have heard it said many times at shows (though never to me) "Then get it on eBay!". Anyone setting up at a show, or has a store, they've got much higher overhead costs than I do, selling out of my basement. I expect they're going to charge a premium. A huge one? No. But is that $10 eBay card worth $15 in person? You bet it is. I don't have to pay for shipping, I (usually) don't have to pay for taxes (that's getting really frequent from Canadian eBay sellers now), and I don't have to worry about it getting to me in one piece. Would I pay $150 for a card I can buy for $100 online? Of course not..... that would be silly, but in my experience, those deals don't exist nearly as often as some of us think they do.

 

[DougLaurieSports]

Apparently this is a taboo subject if one tries to address this in a sales thread where it is observed (as Steve Martin used to say, "Well, excuuuUUuuuse me!" ), so I'm laying it out here in general terms.!

No, it's because you hijacked someone's sale thread. Had you posted this here first, no one would have had a problem.

I'll give my answer on eBay when I'm back in the office.

 

[MrWrestler74]

But value can be argued when something is preceived to be shilled up..
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2012-13-Pani...ckey_Trading_Cards&hash=item58a400af70&_uhb=1

 

[djsports]

Recently I've seen comments indicating an unwillingness to recognize that eBay is the de facto reference point for cards that are easily obtainable - i.e. cards that have a print run of, say, about 50 or more.

It has been apparent to me that eBay sales results have set the market for at least the past 15 years or so. To deny this is to deny literally millions of data points that are completed sales.

This shows up in the prices that some people on HI ask for their cards, whose threads are ultimately a waste of time if I can just go to eBay and get one just like it for far less.

Apparently this is a taboo subject if one tries to address this in a sales thread where it is observed (as Steve Martin used to say, "Well, excuuuUUuuuse me!" ), so I'm laying it out here in general terms.

If you are one of those who doesn't recognize eBay completed sales as valid price references, what is your reasoning? I really would like to know.

Thanks!

Ebay is the biggest crap shoot of all time. There are so many different factors why a card sells one time for $10.00 and the next time it might sell for $1.00. I am not saying that some of the points are not valid, but your argument seems to be based on a "All or nothing" type scenario.

I can literally throw out thousands of examples where I got more for a card than what ebay says its "worth". The most recent happened last night:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-12-Upp...t=US_Hockey_Trading_Cards&hash=item565ae4f8aa - sold for $13.00 dlvd.

The last two that were listed, one sold for $2.99 and one didn't get a bid at $3.99.

There have been a few cases where I placed an item on sale through ebay and it sells two weeks after the sale is over.

It is a lot easier to start higher and come down in price than to start low and try to get more.

 

[Stadium Sports]

Buyers will quote the lowest price (be it BV or ebay sales) just as sellers will quote more favorable pricing (be it BV or ebay sales).

I agree that ebay is the best resource for recent pricing but it is not an indicator for the value of a card. eBay is the modern day yard sale.

As a store though, we sure sell a good number of Becketts which confirms there is a place for both.

 

[gobuffalo2331]

Buyers will quote the lowest price (be it BV or ebay sales) just as sellers will quote more favorable pricing (be it BV or ebay sales).

I agree that ebay is the best resource for recent pricing. As a store though, we sure sell a good number of Becketts which confirms there is a place for both.

I agree with that. It bugs me sometimes though. A Card sells on ebay for $10, beckett books it for $50. I understand it may be rare, or unique etc so I don't expect anybody to give their cards away for next to nothing. But, lets be reasonable. Your "BV" is really high, the ebay sell values for a lot of stuff these days are incredibly low. So let's just meet in the middle, it's more than fair. I see this all the time with acquiring 90's stuff.

 

[Triple B]

I see this all the time with acquiring 90's stuff.

This is exactly what I was thinking. I'm no longer into the new stuff. It's too hit or miss and really now, what IS the value of this stuff? You'll pay something for it now and when the new thing comes out, you can't give it away.

I've been going after 90s stuff that I wanted or had back in the day and the prices are literally all over the place. Now it's down to asking high and settling for something that sounds right. Beckett can't (read: DOESN'T) track that fact.

eBay is a decent place to get values, but even that is subject to many factors. That original sale thread that took a bad turn started off with the OP saying those prices were starting points and that he was looking to negotiate. That is an art that seems lost in this hobby now. This is how Quincy and I became friends...spirited negotiations. People go right for "this sells for $XXX on eBay and I'm not paying more than that" which really kills the spirit of fun. If you can't find a middle ground, then move on. I don't expect people to sell to me for what anything is going on eBay, but I also don't mind finding a fair price if it's a card I REALLY want.

 

[CKcardtrader]

Beckett is horrible for updating anything that is more than a year old. I thought I hit a gold mine when I was getting back into collecting (upperdeck 2009) and bought a bunch of retail tins and what not. Man Im pulling $5-$10 inserts, $5-$15 young guns. Then went on to ebay to see you can't give them away or at local stores they are in the 3/$1 bin. They should just say common base is 1c to 15c, semi stars are 15c to 25c and stars are 25c-50c as I never see them actually sold for over a dollar. Then most inserts are 50c to $1. Not $2-$5 like they claim. And still listing flop rookies at high value when only way to get rid of them is bundled in a lot.

 

[manthis]

the ebay sell values for a lot of stuff these days are incredibly low.

"what cards are you talking about.
i've been buying afew sp-auth-11/12
cards on e-bay and MOST are PRICED at becket prices..
how is that lower incredibly low??

just my 2 cents worth..

 

[nybravest]

the ebay sell values for a lot of stuff these days are incredibly low.

"what cards are you talking about.
i've been buying afew sp-auth-11/12
cards on e-bay and MOST are PRICED at becket prices..
how is that lower incredibly low??

just my 2 cents worth..

You're paying full BV? It could be the set itself. The more set collectors there are the higher the prices.

 

[manthis]

You're paying full BV? It could be the set itself. The more set collectors there are the higher the prices.

full bv or more with shipping at least..

 

[gobuffalo2331]

This is exactly what I was thinking. I'm no longer into the new stuff. It's too hit or miss and really now, what IS the value of this stuff? You'll pay something for it now and when the new thing comes out, you can't give it away.

I've been going after 90s stuff that I wanted or had back in the day and the prices are literally all over the place. Now it's down to asking high and settling for something that sounds right. Beckett can't (read: DOESN'T) track that fact.

eBay is a decent place to get values, but even that is subject to many factors. That original sale thread that took a bad turn started off with the OP saying those prices were starting points and that he was looking to negotiate. That is an art that seems lost in this hobby now. This is how Quincy and I became friends...spirited negotiations. People go right for "this sells for $XXX on eBay and I'm not paying more than that" which really kills the spirit of fun. If you can't find a middle ground, then move on. I don't expect people to sell to me for what anything is going on eBay, but I also don't mind finding a fair price if it's a card I REALLY want.

I agree with everything you said especially the bolded. For anything I really want, hell, I will pay triple ebay prices for something for my Hasek PC because the cards I'm chasing rarely pop up, so I have no problem paying more for anything I'm seriously seeking. I don't like the old "it sells for $20 on ebay I'm not paying a dime more" thing either, I will pay whatever seems fair and I respect people that do the same. We've all been on both ends. Collecting 90's stuff again has giving this hobby a new spark for me. I kept trying to force myself into the new products and just can't do it. The 90's stuff has me making more deals now than I've done in 10+ years.

 

[deepbluejacket]

And as the years have gone by and the sets have multiplied exponentially, it's become an impossible task for any organization to track everything. There's still a lot of residual hostility in me towards Beckett for pretending that it ever could.

At the end of the day, we have to decide what we're willing to buy and sell our cards for and try not to get too angry at others when their perceptions don't match our own.

Mike

 

[djsports]

And as the years have gone by and the sets have multiplied exponentially, it's become an impossible task for any organization to track everything. There's still a lot of residual hostility in me towards Beckett for pretending that it ever could.

At the end of the day, we have to decide what we're willing to buy and sell our cards for and try not to get too angry at others when their perceptions don't match our own.

Mike

I think your resentment started with "confirmed" no trade stripe cards.

 

[bto3105]

At the end of the day, we have to decide what we're willing to buy and sell our cards for and try not to get too angry at others when their perceptions don't match our own.

Mike

Mike I cannot agree more. Card values are a grey area, always will be and it boils down to ones perception of the marketplace. Don't like someone's value, move on but please respect others opinion and be polite about it.

 

[torquewrenchcharlie]

Just to touch on this subject if I may.........I think the whole thing has been blown out of proportion. The o/p has a valid point and YES ebay is only one of many places that card hobbists get their values.......so is becket, and heck even HI or SCF or anywhere else a card may be sold, traded, bought or even flipped for. The fact that some use it as "the rule" is their choice just as those that refuse to use it. They are your cards to determine what they are worth. I think that everyone has a right to speak on their opinion but must also entertain others views where warranted too. I want to thank the O/P for bringing to light this part of the hobby. maybe it will help people get back to the lost art of barter and also to realize that the deal has to fair both ways. just my humble opinion ( take it with a grain of salt)
cheers and beers
mick

 

[dismonkey1]

My thoughts on this...I don't own a Beckett. I think Beckett is very useful for people who trade in low range inserts and commons. The BV sets a framework for the deal. Personally I scour multiple listings, ebay, comc, other trade sites to see what the average value is and then I go from there. I agree that ebay is all over the place...all sorts of different conditions can affect the final sale but also that ebay generally sets the "market value". One thing on ebay is when a new product comes out, they will be gobbled up quickly at higher prices. As time goes by, the prices start to soften a little. So, depending on how much and how quickly you want the card= fair value for the card. For example, ITG Decades 90s has many new Forsberg cards. I haven't purchased a single one yet. Why- because I know that if I am patient, that jersey card that sold for $15 will sell for $5 in a couple of months. Learned my lesson on that front a while back. Still, if a truly rare Decades card showed up out of the gate, I would have to weigh my options...pay now at market value or perhaps never see it again. I think as long as people are fair and realistic about pricing, the item will sell. Just purchased 4 nice cards over on COMC. I thought they were all fairly priced and scooped them up. No haggling, checking books, or ebay. Also just picked up an Ultimate Cody Eakin patch /100 for $5. Would I usually buy this card...not really. But saw it sitting there in a pile and figured why not. If I bought it online I would have to pay a minimum of $3 shipping. Therefore the I "won" the card for only $2 in my mind. BTW here is the link on ebay to the Fantastic Store (Blowout Cards) in Chantilly, VA. They deal mostly in football/baseball but have some hockey. Their in store prices are lower than what is on ebay with maybe some additional wiggle room (exp. the Fuhr auto was $35 marked in store and I think the Eakin Dominion ARP was in the $10 pile)

http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odk...RC1.A0.Xhockey&_nkw=hockey&_sacat=0&_from=R40

 

[SNobles]

I use eBay as a guide for buying, Beckett as a guide for trading on Beckett. SV and BV are way different and SV is very hard to nail down as has been talked about. In the end if you can work out a deal with the other person that you are both happy about who cares. If you can't you move on. No one is trying to offend anyone either way just what someone is either willing to buy or sell a card for.

If someone is asking $100 for a card that you feel is worth less, put your offer in a nice manner and let them know that is what you are willing to buy it for if they can't get their asking price. I have picked up a number of cards like this. I usually put in there that I am not trying to offend as I hope they can get their asking price on their cards.

Great topic and discussion.

 

[newfiecomicguy1]

Ebay IMO is a great source of selling value. However I can usually make more on this site as I save fees etc.

Factors are every where not only on ebay. Stores, ebay, trade sites, card shows all have factors determining value especially sales value. Things like Local players at shops and shows also at shows the time (end of the day or show), location of booth, other sellers inventory etc. On sites similar things including the members popularity and rep. Every where there is factors not only on ebay.