Patch forger... caught! gomaz would be proud ;)

deanengemoen said:
Interestingly I think some one-colour patches are necessary to increase the demand of the high-end ones. If a card is numbered to 99 and all 99 of them are gorgeous patches, the demand would go down. If 20 of them are crappy and 30 of them are OK and only 49 of them are really nice, those 49 are going to command a premium, no?
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A print run of 99 patches, 49 of which are "premium" and a print run of 49, all of which are premium is still a print run of 49 nice patches, right? It's just longer odds to find them in the packs.

All I'm saying is that in the print run of 99 it seems that the 50 one-colour patches are where the opportunity lies with patch forgers.
 
MGiuseffi1969 said:
I think you need to drop your resume in the mail to the good folks at UD. You obviously should be the new VP of product development. You have all the answers...
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Oh I'm sorry I thought this was a public forum.

I've obviously wandered into an area where there are people much, much smarter than I am so I will resume my back seat and let you guys do your thing. All the best.
 
FWIW

Being in a dominant position to discuss cup patches (I own 72/249 of one guy) I can tell you that for my guy the patches break down is something like this 10% 1 colour 25% 2 colour 50% 3 colour and 15% 4 colour or more.

UD do try to do a good job with their patches in the cup but as many have stated its not always possible (wings and leafs logos both spring to mind but who would want to collect those guys anyway).

Patch forgers just want to make a quick buck by turning a boring (sometime multi colour patch) into something that has more eye appeal.

At the end of the day they mainly want to do it with big value names so that the 5 profit they take back is higher (I have yet to see a fake Meyer for example) guys like Crosby, Ovy, Mario ect.

No point making an amazing version of Mat Hunwik as the demand would not be there

As my Grandad use to say "You cant polish a turd"
 
MGiuseffi1969 said:
I think you need to drop your resume in the mail to the good folks at UD. You obviously should be the new VP of product development. You have all the answers...
Click to expand...

NNeves said:
Oh I'm sorry I thought this was a public forum.

I've obviously wandered into an area where there are people much, much smarter than I am so I will resume my back seat and let you guys do your thing. All the best.
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Eh, it's somewhat public. Management does have standards for registration, but I sneaked in anyways.

If the problem was to stop "producing" one color patches, really, just cutting so only multi-color patches existed, I don't think it makes a lot of financial sense. Moreover, it's a bit wasteful.

It seems as though people don't think 1 color patches are the problem, lame as they often appear. There's a lot of good ideas floating around about ensuring the authenticity of patches, and the best ones seem to revolve around a combination of serial numbering, a private image database, public disclosure once a card has been pulled, and a co-operative manufacturer. In the world of hockey, it seems we've only had to worry about Upper Deck's products being faked, but by no means does that mean other products are inherently safe.

-Michael
 
spooner9ball said:
Bruce needs to start giving comments like this a week off to think about them.....
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Your comment is no better than the one you are commenting on. Telling someone else to act in a certain way... If you truly feel the orginal post by Mike granted a week vacation then I guess yours should also...
 
No need for this to get off-topic. MGiuseffi1969 and I have taken it offline.

Please everyone continue with this interesting topic of CSI: Hockey Card. ;)
 
Sorry to get a little off topic but is Upperdeck aware of all of this and if so what can they legally do? Sorry I didn't take the time to read all the posts. I am just a little curious as to what can actually happen here. Thanks!
 
chakhae1 said:
Sorry to get a little off topic but is Upperdeck aware of all of this and if so what can they legally do? Sorry I didn't take the time to read all the posts. I am just a little curious as to what can actually happen here. Thanks!
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Apparently UD has tried to prosecute before, but it didn't get anywhere. Even though their products are being tampered with, it doesn't seem to be too far up the scale of criminal activities for the FBI or RCMP to do anything about.

HOWEVER, if someone who has been duped by this guy filed a case, he could be charged. With eBay's auction privacy rules, it's nearly impossible to find out who actually won the auctions and to advise those winners that they've been duped. It's a tough situation.
 
Thanks for the info Bruce. Man, another reason to bash Ebay and their policies. So, looks like nothing is going to happen here or is there another way to protect the hobby from this kind of practice? I suppose in the end as long as he stops what he is doing or perhaps just does it for his own pleasure and not try to benefit from it(yah right) then everything is fine and dandy. Let's just hope he doesn't surface again...
 
chakhae1 said:
or is there another way to protect the hobby from this kind of practice?
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Gomaz undertook a significant investment of his own time and money to do exactly that with this year's Cup offering. When last I checked (and Jeremy, feel free to correct me) he was still wrestling with the best way to offer the service to the hobby AND do so without trampling all over the considerable courtesy shown him by UD in allowing him to attend the packout.

It's thorny. At present, I think Jeremy will cheerfully verify suspect patches against the info in his photo archive. How the service evolves...good question.
 
Kudos to Jeremy for all his efforts first and foremost. It must have been a hassle to undergo such an investigation with something that should be done for fun and as a hobby. I apologize for sounding ignorant, but I think some people in the hobby focus too much on making a fast buck and don't realize that it is just a hobby and should have more of an enjoyment factor.
 
I am currently in the process of indexing the cards so that I can quickly find a specific card among all the photos.

My goal is to have the indexing complete in time for the Toronto Fall Expo this year and to offer patch authentication on site.

How this will manifest, is still in planning however there will be a nominal fee involved.

In the meantime, I am not able to verify patches as it would take me much too long to find them if I haven't indexed the particular card yet.
 
Can somebody tell me if the patches can not be glued into the card better by U.D. to stop forgeries of patch cards going forward? Why is this happening with Upper Deck patch cards and not (to my knowledge anyways) with ITG? Glue the patch in neatly and if some twit wants to try and alter it he'll destroy the card doing so. I'd like to be a fly on the wall for that misadventure into forgery, lol ;). -Mike :beer:
 

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