Carlyle fired

[newfiecomicguy1]

They just went through 2 of the winningest coaches in the history of the NHL, the coach isn't the problem. Too much money tied up in 3-4 players, really poor signings and Kessel is second or third on the list behind Phaneuf and Lupul. Teams can not win with 1 way players like Kessel, look at his career +/-, he kills teams with his lazy selfish style. He can score but it's no good to score 30 if you are on for 40 against.

Carlyle leaving was a no-brainer with the coaches out there looking for work. Shanny will bring in somebody great Im sure. I gotta say tho... IT MAKES ME SICK WITH HOW THE MEDIA AND FANS ARE ROASTING KESSEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is 1 of your two players (Van Riemsdyk) that are actually producing on a regular basis!!!!! They are doing their job, pick on somebody who isnt. Two guys cant win a cup, maybe, just maybe they should look at getting more depth players...but maybe its just me.

 

[TanguayFan]

Kessel is being reported by multiple sources as being difficult to coach. Couple that with the utter disrespect that he shows towards the media, his horribly soft play, and complete refusal to play anything resembling defense, it's no wonder that nobody on this team seems to care anymore. If your supposed best player is mailing it in on a nightly basis and getting away with it, why should anybody else try?

 

[arashikag3]

Kessel is being reported by multiple sources as being difficult to coach. Couple that with the utter disrespect that he shows towards the media, his horribly soft play, and complete refusal to play anything resembling defense, it's no wonder that nobody on this team seems to care anymore. If your supposed best player is mailing it in on a nightly basis and getting away with it, why should anybody else try?

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl...-blasted-by-former-coach-ron-wilson-1.2891442

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/0...r-under-fire-in-wake-of-randy-carlyle-firing/

QFT

Kessel is a wonderful athlete, bordering on a savant. It’s difficult to let go of that sort of talent. But the Leafs have to, for the long-term health of this club … Trade Kessel. Decide who his worst cronies are in the room, and trade them as well. The structure needs extensive repair, but it’s the culture that requires a tear down.

been discussed ad nausem

Explore what you can get for Dion Phaneuf and Phil Kessel, preferably younger players who will a) be cheaper and b) potentially mature during the time period when the Leafs can realistically be contenders.

DING DING DING

The Leafs, no matter who’s coaching, are a poorly brainstormed concoction. They’re built around a defensive liability of a $64-million winger, Kessel, at a time when the league’s top teams build around a couple of two-way centremen. They’re paying a defenceman, Phaneuf, a No. 1-worthy wage — this when, a little more than a year since he signed a seven-year contract worth $49 million, he’s nobody’s idea of a No. 1-quality blue-liner.

 

[TanguayFan]

LOL @ the comments on one of the articles...

"Phil is like owning a Porsche that can only turn left."

 

[MMarch]

If it wasn't for Kessel (and JVR), the Leafs would be planning the McDavid parade. For some reason Kessel is always the whipping boy even though he constantly does what he's paid to do, and it's not to play defense. He's not the captain of the team, he is not and does not want to be the leader in the locker room. That's on the shoulders of the overpaid captain, the team is a reflection of the leadership there in Toronto, as long as Dion is captain they will go nowhere. Isn't Lupul an A too? If those are your veteran "leaders", you have problems and one of those problems is not a guy who does exactly what he's paid to do and be up there as a top 10 scorer in the league every year. When the Penguins struggle does the media bash Malkin or Kunitz? No, they ask what's wrong with Crosby and he has to answer for the team. Same in Chicago, if there's trouble it's Toews and Keith as the veteran captains, they don't tear down Kane's character. I think a huge problem in Toronto is the media and the fans, they want to play the blame game and always put it on guys they shouldn't. I hope the Leafs do trade Kessel, it will take maybe a year (probably less) before the media is barking about how stupid it was to trade a top 10 scorer. If the Leafs think they will be better without him, then do the guy a favor and trade him instead of forcing him to take the fall for the team. If they seriously put his name out there as trade bait, there would be GM's lined up to try and acquire his scoring ability.

 

[newfiecomicguy1]

You can not win when a player who plays 20 minutes a night and who has been paired against the other teams best line do not play D. Kessel is usually the fastest guy on the ice unfortunately its only going one way. The reason that team like Detroit win and remain playoff bound year after year is because they draft and aquire players who can play 2 way hockey and who are unselfish and buy into the TEAM concept. Guys like Zetterberg and Datsyuk have fantastic skills and could score more goals if they wanted to be selfish and wanted to pad their stats. Instead they play hard at both ends and they win. Look at all the young centers that Detroit now have that is following the example of their leaders, they are all solid 2 way players.

Kessel might not be the C but like it or not as the teams highest paid player there is an expectation from the fans and the people that pay him. Do he score, absolutely, if the fans are happy to keep losing but have a 30-35 goal scorer than they get what they want. If I pay $150-300 for a ticket to watch a game I expect the highest paid player to look and play like he wants to win. If they lose 10-0 or 10-2 and Kessel scores the 2 it's still a loss esp when he is the most irresponsible player on the team who gets the most icetime and fattest cheque. Sorry I would rather have a 20 goal scorer who prevents goals, plays both ways and collects half the salary. The big contract have been giving to the wrong players, plain and simple. It happens, now make it right!!!

 

[Orca Pod]

Okay, Leaf fans. I'm reading this thread with a lot of interest. From what I see, and from stuff I've talked about with other buddies who are Leaf fans the last couple of days, it appears there's a 'Leaf Nation' consensus that Phaneuf and Kessel should 'go.'

Now, what exactly do you think you are going to get for:

A D-man with a 7M cap hit for the next 6 years, who is NOT playing at that level.

A forward with an 8M cap hit for the next 7 years, who is lousy defensively, streaky, 'rumoured' to be a locker room problem and has recently taken to having pissing matches with the media.

Just what do you expect to get for these two players? Do you (as a fan) have visions of top 5 draft picks in your eyes? Do you have visions of other teams' prospect pool? Personally, I just don't see those two things... If you're say, the Oilers, Sabres, Hurricanes... are you going to give up a good chance at a franchise type draft pick AND eat that much salary until early the next decade? I'm not a GM by any means, but I wouldn't think anyone would touch those two players under the current conditions.

Second, if you can indeed trade either one for a roster player and maybe a mid-level prospect, would you be willing to retain cap hit/salary? Keeping in mind that the salary cap is not going up as much as anticipated next season given the CDN$ value.

Heck, we won't even get into the limited no-trade clauses each one has. That kills a lot of potential deals before they start.

I'm interested to hear thoughts on what exactly 'you' (as a Leaf fan) are expecting for either player.

:beer:

 

[MMarch]

It wouldn't matter if Kessel is a plus or even in +/- category, the media would still make him the fall guy. Feschuk or whatever his name is has had it out for Kessel for years. He writes articles and makes fun of the guy every chance he gets, he insinuates that it's Kessel's fault that coaches get fired in Toronto, etc. He is crucified by the media every year, yet every year he's in the top 10 in league scoring which is what he gets paid to do. Sure, go ahead and tell Kessel you don't want him to be that elite scorer every year and you want him to focus on playing defense now. Lets say he can actually do it, his +/- gets better, but he drops to the 20's or 30's in scoring. What happens then? You know darn well the media will kill him saying he is overpaid and has lost his scoring touch. If you really think Kessel can be Datsyuk or Zetterberg, good luck with that. That's not his game, never has been and never will be. He is a pure goal scorer and that's what he gets paid to do. If the Leafs really think Kessel should be a Selke candidate and that's what they expect, then it's their fault for trading for the wrong guy and paying him what they do. At the end of the day, you take Kessel's point production off the Leafs and they are a lottery pick team every year. If I was Kessel I would be pissed with the media there too, especially the toolshed who basically said it was his fault Carlyle was fired. The Leafs need to make a choice here, either stand behind their player who does exactly what he is paid to do, or move him to a team that would welcome what he brings to the table. To continue allowing him to be the whipping boy for that organization is a joke, and based off the comments from most fans all over the internet the last week or so in multiple articles, it appears the fans are behind Kessel for the most part and don't want him shipped out of town and don't believe he is the problem as he's being painted in the media. The Leafs nee to fix the real problems they seem to have every year, lackluster defense, streaky goaltending, and lack of scoring depth. You shut down the Kessel line and you have a good chance of winning that game, is that Kessel's fault? He can't help it that they are constantly a one line team and the other 9 forwards can't seem to put the puck in the net.

 

[kevhur]

This below... we are "stuck" with these players, unless we keep most of the salary. I'm a Leaf fan thru and thru, i don't see an easy solution at all.

Personally i would like to see Phaneuf demoted from C and start playing the second pairing, take off the heavy burden of being the Captain and trying to set a very high example for the rest. I think Phaneuf is a good player, but not suited for the the high pressure role he is currently trying to fill.

Kessell is...well...Kessel, i think we knew we would be a liability on defense, but he is a top scorer, i would like to see more defensive minded D on the ice when Kessel is on the ice, maybe help clean up the +/- of Kessels a little bit.

Okay, Leaf fans. I'm reading this thread with a lot of interest. From what I see, and from stuff I've talked about with other buddies who are Leaf fans the last couple of days, it appears there's a 'Leaf Nation' consensus that Phaneuf and Kessel should 'go.'

Now, what exactly do you think you are going to get for:

A D-man with a 7M cap hit for the next 6 years, who is NOT playing at that level.

A forward with an 8M cap hit for the next 7 years, who is lousy defensively, streaky, 'rumoured' to be a locker room problem and has recently taken to having pissing matches with the media.

Just what do you expect to get for these two players? Do you (as a fan) have visions of top 5 draft picks in your eyes? Do you have visions of other teams' prospect pool? Personally, I just don't see those two things... If you're say, the Oilers, Sabres, Hurricanes... are you going to give up a good chance at a franchise type draft pick AND eat that much salary until early the next decade? I'm not a GM by any means, but I wouldn't think anyone would touch those two players under the current conditions.

Second, if you can indeed trade either one for a roster player and maybe a mid-level prospect, would you be willing to retain cap hit/salary? Keeping in mind that the salary cap is not going up as much as anticipated next season given the CDN$ value.

Heck, we won't even get into the limited no-trade clauses each one has. That kills a lot of potential deals before they start.

I'm interested to hear thoughts on what exactly 'you' (as a Leaf fan) are expecting for either player.

:beer:

 

[newfiecomicguy1]

It would be stupid to TRY and move anyone right now as the Leafs (IMO) reek of desperation. The seats are still full and the money is still rolling in. Heck people are throwing jerseys on the ice only to end up buying a replacement in a few months lol. Wait until the trade deadline where others reek of desperation and make a move then. The leafs moved a pile of horrible contracts just a few years ago it can be done.

 

[will-411]

Randy, I'm one that would like to see Phaneuf and Kessel go, but I'm not stupid - you point out exactly what my frustration is - they can't get rid of these guys.

I will admit that back when they signed Kessel to his current deal, I thought it was a decent deal; he is a top ten scorer in the league, and we do need that; however, he shows a complete disinterest in defense and he must be as dumb as the metal posts on a hockey net if he doesn't realize you can't win as a team without doing the other things too. I really thought he would mature somewhat on the consistency and compete aspects. He hasn't. If he was scoring at a Selanne like rookie pace, or even a Stammer 60 goal pace, I think he'd get more leeway... but let's face it, he still hasn't hit 40 goals in a season despite ample opportunity to do so, save for the fact he can't motivate himself to play hard in at least 60 games a season.

As far as Phaneuf, I don't think he's that bad - he gets paid a bit too much for what he does, and he's the face of the whole "everyone outside of this locker room is out to get us and they don't matter" attitude in the Leafs room, and he makes some bad mistakes, but I think if he's evaluated as a number 2 D-man, I could live with him.

As a Leaf fan though, even before individual players, I blame the whole attitude around the team for their fallacies and failures. As I mentioned above, this whole "We're only accountable to the guys in our room and the organization" is a joke; There's a cold war escalation between the players and the media and the more the media digs, the higher the team throws up the walls and looks inwards. Problem is, no one internally amongst the players is holding each other accountable, either through their experience, or level of play. It's the proliferation of the entitlement era amongst high level, pro athletes playing out under the worlds most powerful media microscope.

Players are not in it for the team; they are in it for themselves. They dress up their interactions with the media and the fans as part of what they have been told are their professional obligations, but truthfully, they only do it because it's part of the job description. And on the Toronto Maple Leafs, there is no effort to even try to play as a team; everyone only wants to do what they feel is best for themselves.

Personally, I think the Leafs could just fire all of the coaches and let the players do what they want on the ice. That's what most of them do now. Might as well save some bucks on bench staff.

Cory