2015-16 Upper Deck Tim Horton's Hockey Cards

[frankiefives]

Possible controversial questions coming up:
Is anybody else bothered by the fact that someone was able to back-door a complete box of these cards "at a good price" before they go on sale?

And what does "at a good price" mean? Less than what people are supposed to pay? At a premium because you were permitted to buy a whole box? Is the owner of the store pocketing money on this sale or is the store being ripped off by it?

I realize that coffee franchisee privately selling promotional items is not the same as reputable dealers back dooring cards that were never supposed to see the light of day and I don't want to go down that route, but it's still gaining cards by means other than those by which they were meant to be gained. Feels a little dirty to me.

As for the set itself, it looks nice enough. I don't drink coffee and won't be touching it.

Andrew

This isn't a regular UD release so the Tim's owners can do whatever they please with their stock as I highly doubt the franchise will care. However I do believe that the packs should be sold for no less than what other clients must pay. If someone offered me boxes like this, I'd happily take them at $2 a pack (or $1 each and the purchase of an expensive Tim's gift card lol)

 

[topcheddar]

I was merely sharing some photos and the odds of the cards out the box. I did not list anything on eBay or for sale.

Regarding a good price, I am good friends with the owner and he knows my love for cards so he felt it was okay to share these cards with me. I did not pay a premium or something lower, I was trying to put together a set and share doubles with those who need them.

I asked his thoughts on sharing my findings and he said go for it. It is up to the franchise owner to sell these cards and I will remove the photos to avoid anymore controversies.

I am not looking to jack prices up per pack and I have no intention on trying to make a profit on these cards. I am just building a set and wanted to share some info.

Hope this clarifies any questions,
Ryan

 

[RGM81]

I didn't intend that to be the implication. What I intended to say was that the vast majority of kids will want a McDavid RC. And based on the odds, most of those kids will never get one. The extremely long odds/short printing created by UD in OPC, MVP and now Tim's cards, make pulling a McDavid card inaccessible to kids. I'm sure lots of kids will still find these sets fun, as you pointed out, but I'm concerned that kids who want to take up or continue collecting will find not being able to get a McDavid discouraging.

Either that or they're going to learn a good lesson about this hobby early, one that most of us know all too well: don't expect to hit the big one, or you'll be disappointed. Just enjoy what you do get.

 

[amrosen]

This isn't a regular UD release so the Tim's owners can do whatever they please with their stock as I highly doubt the franchise will care. However I do believe that the packs should be sold for no less than what other clients must pay. If someone offered me boxes like this, I'd happily take them at $2 a pack (or $1 each and the purchase of an expensive Tim's gift card lol)

I usually don't get involved in these discussions, but just this once......

While it's true that the Tim's franchise probably doesn't care about preferred customers having access to entire boxes of the Tim's cards, the ability to acquire cards in such a manner speaks to the "fairness" of the situation. The fact that roughly 200 packs of this product are off the market before the release date means that there are already 200 less packs of Tim's cards available to others (including kids) who are not "good friends" with a Tim's owner.

We always talk on this forum about how we need to get more kids involved in collecting to ensure the longevity of the hobby, yet we continue to act in ways that severely limit their ability to do so.

Just sayin.......

 

[cygnusx1]

I feel like pretty much anyone here would have bought that box of cards if it were offered to them. There's 8 million or so packs out there. No need to put yourself on an online moral high horse.

 

[dble_g2k]

hmmm....

I feel like pretty much anyone here would have bought that box of cards if it were offered to them. There's 8 million or so packs out there. No need to put yourself on an online moral high horse.

If this is indeed "supposed" to last until May 2016 I refer you to my previous post back on page two of this thread. I refer you very gently though lol.

I knew when Crosby signed a Timmies exclusive a few years back this was coming, and it's about time they found a new way to put packs in the hands of the people that matter most in our hobby. THE KIDS!

Now, (slight rant forthcoming) to all of you grown adults and Tim Horton's employees who read this, PLEASE do not try and and scam or purchase your way into a glut of these cards! Sure you can PERHAPS make a buck or two off of them, but if you're denying even ONE youngster a chance at joining our hobby, or at least planting the seed to do so... well we all lose in the end. I say WE because that's a trade or sale YOU YOURSELF could miss out on in the future!

If you know of such a person, please appeal to them to think long term here. It isn't every day our hobby gets a chance to reach so many younger kids. Let's use our chances wisely, or we're all dinosaurs.

Just because there is 8 million packs out there, doesn't mean every kid is going to rush, or even walk to try this out. We need to let these run their natural course, to give regular parents the chance to pick up something small for their kids that might not otherwise do so. Think of all the packs that will get purchased by parents/kids after Xmas with their gift cards!

Please folks, show a little restraint when it comes to picking these up en masse. I'm not knocking you at all either Cheddar, it seems like if you're going to chase you're willing to trade. Go find some ten or eleven year old trading partners to do so with (and give them the edge on the deal too would ya? ).

 

[penfield]

I usually don't get involved in these discussions, but just this once......

While it's true that the Tim's franchise probably doesn't care about preferred customers having access to entire boxes of the Tim's cards, the ability to acquire cards in such a manner speaks to the "fairness" of the situation. The fact that roughly 200 packs of this product are off the market before the release date means that there are already 200 less packs of Tim's cards available to others (including kids) who are not "good friends" with a Tim's owner.

We always talk on this forum about how we need to get more kids involved in collecting to ensure the longevity of the hobby, yet we continue to act in ways that severely limit their ability to do so.

Just sayin.......

I keep seeing "for the kids" blah blah blah - how many kids do you know that drink coffee????

Tim Horton's is not a franchise that in my eyes is geared towards kids. Sure they promote Tim Bits Hockey and what not, but i think that is geared to the parents.

Also, I called a few Timmies around, and they have 4 CASES! Not just 4 boxes of 100 packs - the one store I called had 4000 packs, which is 40 boxes of 100 packs.

I plan on buying a whole sleeve at $1.99 a pack, unless like frankiefives is saying, maybe work a deal somehow buying a giftcard cause i cannot drink 100 coffees in one shot! Even still, pretty sure the coffee drinking children of Canada will still be able to get packs!

 

[frankiefives]

So a Tim Horton's owner should pay for these cases of cards and keep them in stock (and perhaps be stuck with some of them after the promotion is over) for the kids? Really? Let's be real here people. Kids are a TINY fraction of this hobby's clientele. Out of these 8 million packs, how many will go to kids? A few thousand? The rest will be cracked open by adults who collect cards. Why else would a coffee chain be offering these? Not too many kids go to Tim's for their morning coffee...

 

[RGM81]

If this is indeed "supposed" to last until May 2016 I refer you to my previous post back on page two of this thread. I refer you very gently though lol.



Just because there is 8 million packs out there, doesn't mean every kid is going to rush, or even walk to try this out. We need to let these run their natural course, to give regular parents the chance to pick up something small for their kids that might not otherwise do so. Think of all the packs that will get purchased by parents/kids after Xmas with their gift cards!

Please folks, show a little restraint when it comes to picking these up en masse. I'm not knocking you at all either Cheddar, it seems like if you're going to chase you're willing to trade. Go find some ten or eleven year old trading partners to do so with (and give them the edge on the deal too would ya? ).

Hobbyists doing this sort of thing is part of "the natural course" of a release. Same as the die-hard Star Wars fan that hits Toys R Us the minute that the product is released to buy large quantities for their collection. Same as a guy that can afford to order 10 cases of The Cup without batting an eye. Same as ticket brokers using multiple accounts to swoop up as many prime seats as possible at a concert/event/game.

 

[dble_g2k]

Hobbyists doing this sort of thing is part of "the natural course" of a release. Same as the die-hard Star Wars fan that hits Toys R Us the minute that the product is released to buy large quantities for their collection. Same as a guy that can afford to order 10 cases of The Cup without batting an eye. Same as ticket brokers using multiple accounts to swoop up as many prime seats as possible at a concert/event/game.

No offense meant by the cheekiness of the comment I'm about to unload RGM81, but aren't your examples all basically saying the same thing? Kids are being priced out of MANY things. You're actually making my point for me.

Who gains more from that Star Wars release? The 30-40 year old fan, or the twelve year old one? Who will keep that market alive longer?
Who gains more with the multiple ticket purchase example? Not the guy forced to deal with scalpers to get good seats for his family to the odd game...

I'm not suggesting we leave these cards alone completely, all I'm saying is let's try and make them last, in order to provide our younger generations with the OPPORTUNITY to participate. They are already priced out of so much.

And with respect, I agree with the whole "kids don't drink coffee/kids aren't the target market" aspect of all this. It's the parents of these kids that we want to draw in to this scenario, to take home some packs and to experience that 'first' with their child(ren) all over again. Even if the kids don't bite, the parents might end up back here with us, a place they haven't been since the early 90's themselves... and then once the grown ups have some "higher end" stuff in the house, the kids might have even greater exposure to the hobby, and decide to join in at that point (obviously not financially, but in spirit, which leads to more quality family time).

Finally, do I think that the owners are going to get left "high and dry" with this product?

Nope.

We're CANADIANS!! We eat, sleep, and breathe hockey! If in April or May there are ANY stock left to be had, (who wants to bet there won't be?) Open up box sales if needed, or relax the pack limit (if any), but really... first year of a first release with a Canadian Exclusive through a mainstream pipeline.... this stuff is gone by Xmas unless it's very carefully rationed.

I mean there is going to be TWO Expo's in Toronto between now and the end of May. All stores that need to liquidate could setup ONE booth at the May Expo and clean up lol.

 

[penfield]

And with respect, I agree with the whole "kids don't drink coffee/kids aren't the target market" aspect of all this. It's the parents of these kids that we want to draw in to this scenario, to take home some packs and to experience that 'first' with their child(ren) all over again. Even if the kids don't bite, the parents might end up back here with us, a place they haven't been since the early 90's themselves... and then once the grown ups have some "higher end" stuff in the house, the kids might have even greater exposure to the hobby, and decide to join in at that point (obviously not financially, but in spirit, which leads to more quality family time).

exactly! which is why i am buying 100 packs to build the set for my kid and i will do it asap to ensure that i don't miss out on it with people buying a bunch of boxes

 

[frankiefives]

No offense meant by the cheekiness of the comment I'm about to unload RGM81, but aren't your examples all basically saying the same thing? Kids are being priced out of MANY things. You're actually making my point for me.

Who gains more from that Star Wars release? The 30-40 year old fan, or the twelve year old one? Who will keep that market alive longer?
Who gains more with the multiple ticket purchase example? Not the guy forced to deal with scalpers to get good seats for his family to the odd game...

I'm not suggesting we leave these cards alone completely, all I'm saying is let's try and make them last, in order to provide our younger generations with the OPPORTUNITY to participate. They are already priced out of so much.

And with respect, I agree with the whole "kids don't drink coffee/kids aren't the target market" aspect of all this. It's the parents of these kids that we want to draw in to this scenario, to take home some packs and to experience that 'first' with their child(ren) all over again. Even if the kids don't bite, the parents might end up back here with us, a place they haven't been since the early 90's themselves... and then once the grown ups have some "higher end" stuff in the house, the kids might have even greater exposure to the hobby, and decide to join in at that point (obviously not financially, but in spirit, which leads to more quality family time).

Finally, do I think that the owners are going to get left "high and dry" with this product?

Nope.

We're CANADIANS!! We eat, sleep, and breathe hockey! If in April or May there are ANY stock left to be had, (who wants to bet there won't be?) Open up box sales if needed, or relax the pack limit (if any), but really... first year of a first release with a Canadian Exclusive through a mainstream pipeline.... this stuff is gone by Xmas unless it's very carefully rationed.

I mean there is going to be TWO Expo's in Toronto between now and the end of May. All stores that need to liquidate could setup ONE booth at the May Expo and clean up lol.

Again, there are over 8 million packs of this stuff. There's enough for everyone including kids AND the bulk buyers. I'm sure UD and Tim Horton's had this all figured out. Everybody wins

 

[DougLaurieSports]

According to the Wikipedia for Tim Hortons, there are 4,590 stores in Canada. Assuming they all participate and they each got 4,000 packs, that would mean 18,360,000 packs, not 8M.

But even if that were accurate and they stick to limits, what would that mean? Given how busy Timmie's are, wouldn't you expect them to sell at least 250 packs a day? That means store would run out in less than three weeks, right?

Am I missing something?

 

[scooby1970]

According to the Wikipedia for Tim Hortons, there are 4,590 stores in Canada. Assuming they all participate and they each got 4,000 packs, that would mean 18,360,000 packs, not 8M.

But even if that were accurate and they stick to limits, what would that mean? Given how busy Timmie's are, wouldn't you expect them to sell at least 250 packs a day? That means store would run out in less than three weeks, right?

Am I missing something?

of the 4950 stores listed , I wonder how many are kiosks...... I deliver milk to some of the tim hortons here in Windsor and some of them a little kiosks set up in the colleges, universities. hospitals and gas stations

 

[penfield]

According to the Wikipedia for Tim Hortons, there are 4,590 stores in Canada. Assuming they all participate and they each got 4,000 packs, that would mean 18,360,000 packs, not 8M.

But even if that were accurate and they stick to limits, what would that mean? Given how busy Timmie's are, wouldn't you expect them to sell at least 250 packs a day? That means store would run out in less than three weeks, right?

Am I missing something?

i'm assuming some stores might have signed up for less boxes/cases than others - also, out of those 4,590 stores in Canada, does this include walk-up and drive thru only and stores in Hospitals and certain employers? I think in London just between the hospitals there are like 5 Timmies, and doubt they would be selling packs

not sure why we are all wasting finger energy debating this (me included) - it has been said many times - there is TONS of the stuff

 

[DougLaurieSports]

not sure why we are all wasting finger energy debating this (me included) - it has been said many times - there is TONS of the stuff

No, there isn't. Even if we go by just the number of packs the stores are receiving (and I have confirmed that locally with a couple stores), that still means just 4K packs per store. How many do you think they are going to sell a day? Just 100 a day means out by the middle of November, and man, they are going to sell more than that.

 

[RGM81]

No offense meant by the cheekiness of the comment I'm about to unload RGM81, but aren't your examples all basically saying the same thing? Kids are being priced out of MANY things. You're actually making my point for me.

Who gains more from that Star Wars release? The 30-40 year old fan, or the twelve year old one? Who will keep that market alive longer?
Who gains more with the multiple ticket purchase example? Not the guy forced to deal with scalpers to get good seats for his family to the odd game...

I'm not suggesting we leave these cards alone completely, all I'm saying is let's try and make them last, in order to provide our younger generations with the OPPORTUNITY to participate. They are already priced out of so much.

And with respect, I agree with the whole "kids don't drink coffee/kids aren't the target market" aspect of all this. It's the parents of these kids that we want to draw in to this scenario, to take home some packs and to experience that 'first' with their child(ren) all over again. Even if the kids don't bite, the parents might end up back here with us, a place they haven't been since the early 90's themselves... and then once the grown ups have some "higher end" stuff in the house, the kids might have even greater exposure to the hobby, and decide to join in at that point (obviously not financially, but in spirit, which leads to more quality family time).

Finally, do I think that the owners are going to get left "high and dry" with this product?

Nope.

We're CANADIANS!! We eat, sleep, and breathe hockey! If in April or May there are ANY stock left to be had, (who wants to bet there won't be?) Open up box sales if needed, or relax the pack limit (if any), but really... first year of a first release with a Canadian Exclusive through a mainstream pipeline.... this stuff is gone by Xmas unless it's very carefully rationed.

I mean there is going to be TWO Expo's in Toronto between now and the end of May. All stores that need to liquidate could setup ONE booth at the May Expo and clean up lol.

No offence taken.

But no, I'm not making your point for you.

Little Billy can still get his Boba Fett toy, provided that there's still enough stock left. Most of the big collectors at retail grab one of everything, so assuming that Boba Fett's not a case hit there should still be some left on the rack. And if Billy can't get one at Toys R Us in his town, chances are Billy's pretty tech savvy and knows he can get one ordered for him online shipped right to the store.

The scalper that gets his hands on 50 tickets will, provided that the game sells out, be able to turn himself a tidy profit by re-selling them with a markup. In the interim, there's still another 21,223 seats at the Bell Centre available for that night's game. And if you know you're in for tickets for an in-demand event, you're savvy enough to know that you gotta be on there right away if you want the best seats. If not, and nosebleeds are fine, you can wait a bit for extra spots to be released and there's almost always radio promos.

The Cup ripper that makes it his passion to do his 10 cases each year is probably a guy that's largely responsible for your LCS still being open, provided he buys through them. The proceeds from $33,000'ish purchase pays a lot of bills. But if you're a regular customer at the store and you buy enough throughout the year, you may get allocated a tin if you really need it. And if OPC or Series 1 are more your bag, the store's still around. If you wanna snag a single or two, there's a chance the big buyer's a cool dude and may hook you up with it at a good price. If you can't get any more Cup from that store because they're maxed out, there's always the Internet or the other store across town.

The point I'm making is that there is plenty enough for everybody. If you look at the various locations of members posting here, we're pretty much all in different towns. If Richard in Kelowna buys a box of 100 or 125 or 150 packs of Timmy's cards from one of the 8-10 stores in his city, that's a drop in the bucket compared to how many are floating around still. If Frank in Gatineau gets his paws on 500 packs, all the politicians that come back and forth to Ottawa can still get theirs--some better hurry though because they may be out of a job in three weeks.

 

[dble_g2k]

No offence taken.

But no, I'm not making your point for you.

Little Billy can still get his Boba Fett toy, provided that there's still enough stock left. Most of the big collectors at retail grab one of everything, so assuming that Boba Fett's not a case hit there should still be some left on the rack. And if Billy can't get one at Toys R Us in his town, chances are Billy's pretty tech savvy and knows he can get one ordered for him online shipped right to the store.

The scalper that gets his hands on 50 tickets will, provided that the game sells out, be able to turn himself a tidy profit by re-selling them with a markup. In the interim, there's still another 21,223 seats at the Bell Centre available for that night's game. And if you know you're in for tickets for an in-demand event, you're savvy enough to know that you gotta be on there right away if you want the best seats. If not, and nosebleeds are fine, you can wait a bit for extra spots to be released and there's almost always radio promos.

The Cup ripper that makes it his passion to do his 10 cases each year is probably a guy that's largely responsible for your LCS still being open, provided he buys through them. The proceeds from $33,000'ish purchase pays a lot of bills. But if you're a regular customer at the store and you buy enough throughout the year, you may get allocated a tin if you really need it. And if OPC or Series 1 are more your bag, the store's still around. If you wanna snag a single or two, there's a chance the big buyer's a cool dude and may hook you up with it at a good price. If you can't get any more Cup from that store because they're maxed out, there's always the Internet or the other store across town.

The point I'm making is that there is plenty enough for everybody. If you look at the various locations of members posting here, we're pretty much all in different towns. If Richard in Kelowna buys a box of 100 or 125 or 150 packs of Timmy's cards from one of the 8-10 stores in his city, that's a drop in the bucket compared to how many are floating around still. If Frank in Gatineau gets his paws on 500 packs, all the politicians that come back and forth to Ottawa can still get theirs--some better hurry though because they may be out of a job in three weeks.

I'm a big fan of all of the points you've listed, I apologize as that sounds like a disservice, when it is in fact a compliment. I agree with everything you are saying, (from a certain standpoint) and they are absolutely all valid and have merit. However they're all listed as "business" examples, and are driven by such.

Card collecting, while business for some, is certainly a hobby to more of us. I'm trying to point out we have a way to add more hobbyists, at a time when we could certainly use them! Don't we already have enough "rip n flip"?

I do believe time will be the telling factor in the end. I might actually create a pool to guess when they announce that they're out of packs

 

[RGM81]

I'm a big fan of all of the points you've listed, I apologize as that sounds like a disservice, when it is in fact a compliment. I agree with everything you are saying, (from a certain standpoint) and they are absolutely all valid and have merit. However they're all listed as "business" examples, and are driven by such.

Card collecting, while business for some, is certainly a hobby to more of us. I'm trying to point out we have a way to add more hobbyists, at a time when we could certainly use them! Don't we already have enough "rip n flip"?

I do believe time will be the telling factor in the end. I might actually create a pool to guess when they announce that they're out of packs

Oh fear not, I have plans for some of these packs that will go towards getting them in the hands of younglings.

 

[Leafsfan1967]

There are at least 24 Timmies in Barrie, Ontario alone, so I can just imagine how many are across Canada? Seems like many locations are getting 3-4 cases each, so there will be plenty to go around folks. No need to worry, or panic just yet.